9mm competition loads

jimbobborg · May 26, 2015

Now that I have a second full sized 9mm, I'm looking to reload for it. Strictly competition loads (Steel Challenge, 3-Gun). I don't need +P+ or anything crazy like that. What would be the optimal weight bullet be for minimal muzzle flip but enough power to knock over steel inside 20 yards without lobbing rounds?

Traveler · May 26, 2015

I have seen references that many 9mm guns are most accurate with the 124 grain. My Glocks and Sig do well with them.

Braddbdl · May 26, 2015

147gr Montanna Gold
3.3gr Titegroup

I used to run 124gr bullets, but the 147's are far superior.

lsw · May 26, 2015

Traveler said:
I have seen references that many 9mm guns are most accurate with the 124 grain. My Glocks and Sig do well with them.

I haven't fired a whole lot of different 9mm pistols, but that's been my experience with the ones I own, an old Taurus PT99 and a CZ75. Haven't tried enough 147 gr loads to see if they're even better.

Jaybeez · May 26, 2015

124gr flat points
love them
loaded with titegroup, very economical and very accurate

Traveler · May 26, 2015

Titegroup is used my many people in competition. If you are new to reloading, be VERY careful. It is really easy to double charge and miss it, with nasty results.

OrbitalEllipses · May 26, 2015

Braddbdl said:
I used to run 124gr bullets, but the 147's are far superior.

Can you qualify that statement in any way? Not calling ******** or anything, but curious as to what tests you ran to determine this. Unless you're solely talking about the availability of aerodynamically superior JHP bullets in 147gr flavor.

Traveler said:
I have seen references that many 9mm guns are most accurate with the 124 grain. My Glocks and Sig do well with them.

124gr is the intended grain weight of the 9mm Luger cartridge as designed, folks who shoot 124gr like to say that if it was designed that way then it should be run that way. I like 124gr factory loads, but I'm open to empirical data that shows definitively which is 'better' beyond the subjective notion that each shooter has of the particular grain weights.

Magnumite · May 26, 2015

A good number of upper tier bullseye shooters using 9mm use 147 grainers.

lx1x · May 26, 2015

Been shooting 124g rainier roundnose..but have shot hollow points recently (what I have currently have). Fairly accurate .

I load them with titegroup also.

jimbobborg · May 26, 2015

It looks like 147 and 124gr are the two mentioned most. Are these all round nose or are any TC bullets being used? For the 147gr bullets, are you getting crumpled cases when loading these? I noticed this when I'm loading long for caliber bullets in 40/10mm.

Also, Titegroup seems to be the favorite here. Is this available again?

Traveler · May 26, 2015

X-treme bullets says their hollow points are more accurate. Seemed to be true in my reloading. Not for defensive purposes of course, they are just plated bullets.

You would be fine with Titegroup, or WSF.

alucard0822 · May 26, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
Can you qualify that statement in any way? Not calling ******** or anything, but curious as to what tests you ran to determine this. Unless you're solely talking about the availability of aerodynamically superior JHP bullets in 147gr flavor.

124gr is the intended grain weight of the 9mm Luger cartridge as designed, folks who shoot 124gr like to say that if it was designed that way then it should be run that way. I like 124gr factory loads, but I'm open to empirical data that shows definitively which is 'better' beyond the subjective notion that each shooter has of the particular grain weights.

Physics really, to make the 125 power factor you either need to push a 124/125 past 1000fps, 147 only needs to go > 850. The 147 has less powder to begin with, less blast and less recoil by a fair amount. The slower speed and greater seating depth can reduce velocity spread, and with boat tail or plated 147s I never had a problem creasing cases(still run a post sizer die though). The slower heavier bullet seems to cycle a bit better than low power 124s so you don't need to reduce spring weights as much, and tends to hit higher and more in line with factory sights being they cycle slower, but with a bit more force. Of course if you are running a comp, excess gas is your friend being the more gas/less bullet weight makes the comp work better. Almost all of the top competitors running 147s, but as with most things the subtle differences in a load matter more as you shoot in higher classifications and gain experience, seldom will you drop points with one load that you would pick up with the other.

Braddbdl · May 26, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
Can you qualify that statement in any way? Not calling ******** or anything, but curious as to what tests you ran to determine this. Unless you're solely talking about the availability of aerodynamically superior JHP bullets in 147gr flavor.

Iv'e done extensive accuracy and speed testing with 124's, and shot thousands of them in competition for years, mostly out of M&P's and CZ-75's. After trying out some 147's, and immediately recognizing that felt recoil was far less, I went ahead and did some accuracy and speed testing. Albeit, not as thoroughly as previous with the 124's. What I found was that the accuracy was relatively the same as my best 124gr loads, and overall speed was similar, but I was on sights slightly faster with the 147's resulting in greater accuracy at speed. 147's also have the benefit of taking down steel more consistently than 124's.

alucard0822 said:
Physics really, to make the 125 power factor you either need to push a 124/125 past 1000fps, 147 only needs to go > 850. The 147 has less powder to begin with, less blast and less recoil by a fair amount. The slower speed and greater seating depth can reduce velocity spread, and with boat tail or plated 147s I never had a problem creasing cases(still run a post sizer die though). The slower heavier bullet seems to cycle a bit better than low power 124s so you don't need to reduce spring weights as much, and tends to hit higher and more in line with factory sights being they cycle slower, but with a bit more force. Of course if you are running a comp, excess gas is your friend being the more gas/less bullet weight makes the comp work better. Almost all of the top competitors running 147s, but as with most things the subtle differences in a load matter more as you shoot in higher classifications and gain experience, seldom will you drop points with one load that you would pick up with the other.

Yes, I agree with all of the above. Adding on to your last sentence, I have found that casual shooters and even some competition shooters just don't notice a difference in loads from 124 to 147 when I let them try them. Where I notice "major" differences, they just don't have the experience yet to notice.

alucard0822 · May 26, 2015

Braddbdl said:
Iv'e done extensive accuracy and speed testing with 124's, and shot thousands of them in competition for years, mostly out of M&P's and CZ-75's. After trying out some 147's, and immediately recognizing that felt recoil was far less, I went ahead and did some accuracy and speed testing. Albeit, not as thoroughly as previous with the 124's. What I found was that the accuracy was relatively the same as my best 124gr loads, and overall speed was similar, but I was on sights slightly faster with the 147's resulting in greater accuracy at speed. 147's also have the benefit of taking down steel more consistently than 124's.

Yes, I agree with all of the above. Adding on to your last sentence, I have found that casual shooters and even some competition shooters just don't notice a difference in loads from 124 to 147 when I let them try them. Where I notice "major" differences, they just don't have the experience yet to notice.

and apparently you and I used the same recipe, Montana's when I could get them Rainier when I couldn't.

The best thing for a new competitor to shoot better is to practice and compete more, and work with a coach, if saving a few bucks by going with cheaper 124s, or a cheaper pistol helps them do that then they are "better". A good beginner does best with familiar and consistent gear, even if it isn't "ideal". Usually by the time they are getting deeper into the match standings they also discover little tweaks to their system that work better, most of which the experienced guys have been doing all along. To do it the other way around, and try to change everything all the time to try to keep in fashion with the sponsored guys ends up being expensive and frustrating, and they never get as far as fast.

jimbobborg · May 26, 2015

I've noticed with my Limited pistol in 40 S&W that with the lighter 165gr bullets there's definitely more sturm und drang versus the heavier 180gr bullets. I was more accurate and faster on the plates with the heavier bullets, too. I'm thinking that I'm going with the 147s since, while I'm shooting the action sports, louder reports are distracting, at least for me.

So, lead, jacketed, or plated? I've been more successful (and accurate) lately running lead only bullets. I've been using this guy's bullets http://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineStore/categories.php?cat=9+MM for CAS and my Limited gun.

Traveler · May 26, 2015

Plated or jacketed. Glock does not want you running lead through their guns anyway.

Yes, some will argue they do it fine. Glock says not to in their manual, and plated only cost a little more.

jimbobborg · May 26, 2015

Traveler said:
Plated or jacketed. Glock does not want you running lead through their guns anyway.

Yes, some will argue they do it fine. Glock says not to in their manual, and plated only cost a little more.

I'm using my new CZ SP-01.

Traveler · May 26, 2015

jimbobborg said:
I'm using my new CZ SP-01.

Might be fine then. Plated leaves me with no leading to deal with.

Bikebreath · May 26, 2015

In my CZ85 Combat I'm running Precision Delta's 147FMJ over3.8gr of 321 at 1.150 OAL. It came from a mdshooter who did IDPA, but who longer posts.

ETA: Correction 231, as in Winchester 231. The member I mentioned was Fustercluck

mgrs · May 26, 2015

Traveler said:
Might be fine then. Plated leaves me with no leading to deal with.

Neither does lead, if done right.

No reason to shoot lubed lead over coated lead either. I'm completely off lubed lead in favor of coated and could not be happier. Plus the bullets are neat colors.

OP- what powder are you using? I like shotgun powders for cast lead shooting. Titegroup is fine but burns hot and smokes a lot.

What I use to make minor in a G34 with KKM Barrel:

SNS 125gr coated LRN (no groove) at 1.150
Red Dot: 3.4
WST: 3.8

SNS 124gr LRN (lube groove) 1.150
Red Dot: 3.4

SNS 147gr LFP (lube groove) at 1.143
WST: 3.0

I am about to give E3 a try. WST likes to speed up a lot when cold.

All loads work best with a lighter recoil spring.

I used xtreme plated for a while, but gained nothing (and lost accuracy) but less smoke for the extra cost. They were accurate enough for action games though.

9mm competition loads

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