MSP: FIREARM PURCHASE APPLICANTS WITH APPLICATIONS PENDING ON OCT 1 WON'T NEED HQL

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  • pilotguy299

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 26, 2010
    1,809
    FredNeck County, MD
    Legal or not, if MSP intends to not enforce the law, it really doesn't matter. what the law says.

    They are in panic mode after yesterday's admissions.

    The MSP isn't the only agency that can enforce firearms laws. And they certainly don't have the authority to decline prosecution.

    Can the AG legally stop a local State's Attorney from prosecuting a case?
     

    MigraineMan

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 9, 2011
    19,109
    Frederick County
    I just hit the AGC mailer, expressing how apalled I am at this development. Representative government is worthless if law enforcement can pick and choose, on a whim, what to enforce and what to ignore. This ain't a questionable speeding citation where "officer judgement" allows him to choose "fine" or "warning." This is the entire State Police department ignoring a law that has had the full benefit of due process.

    It's pretty clear that 5-117.1 states that transfers after 01 October require an HQL, and that position is backed up by AAG Kathryn Rowe's response to Delegate Smigiel.

    Regardless of their support or opposition to SB281, ALL of our representatives should rain all manner of fire and brimstone on MSP for this statement.
     

    csanc123

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2009
    4,155
    Montgomery County
    Just sent this this to Mike Smigiel and Nancy Jacobs:

    The first link is from MSP via AGC:

    http://campaign.r20.constantcontact...eQKoju9UhO5vQXOU-wQ3KiC2uGYtjrLsnzPftBZx24Q==

    This is counter to the bill as passed and counter to the COMAR accepted yesterday. Compare to an AG opinion of 08/01/13:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/158788674/AG-opinion

    While on the surface it appears to be a good thing for us, is this entrapment of dealers and buyers? Can this come back to bite us on the ass?

    Thanks, My Name.

    Given the disdain MSP brass showed yesterday I don't trust them one bit. I hope Delegate Smigiel can get to the bottom of this sudden turn of events. I suspect the administration is trying to wiggle their way out of one of plenty of lawsuits to come. With that said we now have a two differing opinions on the matter...the AG and MSP.
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    We should not be enabling their improper behavior.

    How many of us condemn the US AG and ICE for not enforcing the immigration laws? This is no different, just because it is a law we disagree with.

    By not making them adhere to the standards they should, we are giving approval for them to ignore the law in the future.

    They should not be able to ignore the law, just because it makes things easier for them.

    Absolutely agree. This is like giving the legislature an out for their inability to do their job.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Given the disdain MSP brass showed yesterday I don't trust them one bit. I hope Delegate Smigiel can get to the bottom of this sudden turn of events. I suspect the administration is trying to wiggle their way out of one of plenty of lawsuits to come. With that said we now have a two differing opinions on the matter...the AG and MSP.

    Not to worry. There is probably an odd item out there that some enterprising group can glom on to, and make their lives difficult.......

    ;)
     

    pilotguy299

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 26, 2010
    1,809
    FredNeck County, MD
    Here is the email I sent to my delegate, senator, and everyone else on the list:


    Good evening,


    I have just read the Maryland State Police's recent press release dated September 24, 2013, titled:

    "FIREARM PURCHASE APPLICANTS WITH APPLICATIONS PENDING ON OCTOBER 1 WILL NOT NEED TO OBTAIN A HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE."

    and I am absolutely in shock at what it says.

    https://www.mdsp.org/News/PressRele...tail/mid/1088/xmid/21998/xmfid/4/Default.aspx

    In the press release it advises that:

    "The Maryland State Police (MSP) will not enforce the requirements of the new law with respect to applicants whose applications are pending as of October 1. It was widely understood that the new requirements would not be enforced as to applications that were pending before October 1."

    This is not only disturbing because they are telling people that it is OK to disregard a law passed by the General Assembly, but that go further to make a misleading and essentially false statement to support their directions.

    On the MDSP Licensing web page:

    https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/S...ion/Firearms/HandgunQualificationLicense.aspx

    It clearly says:

    "Unless otherwise exempt, as of October 1, 2013, a person must possess a valid Handgun Qualification License before they may purchase, rent, or receive a handgun. Details on exemptions may be found below. You do not need a Handgun Qualification License to own a gun you already have. The Handgun Qualification License is only needed for purchasing, transferring, or renting a regulated firearm after October 1, 2013."

    Nowhere on the page does it say that the requirements would not apply to applications for handguns made prior to Oct 1.

    Furthermore, given the written opinion provided by Assistant Attorney General Kathryn Rowe to Delegate Smigiel on August 1, 2013:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/158788674/AG-opinion

    Which clearly says that:

    " it is my view that after October 1, 2013 a person may not take delivery of, and a dealer may not deliver, a handgun to a person who does not have a handgun qualification license, even if the purchase was arranged before October 1, 2013."

    It is misleading for the State Police to have said that their new position on the HQL was widely known, let alone legally valid.

    Unlike the section of the law that made a provision for assault long guns that had a valid purchase order or application submitted before October 1, 2013,to be legally transferred after October 1, 2013, there is no similar provision in the law concerning handguns.

    Absent a written opinion from the Attorney General issued prior to the issuance of the September 24, 2013 by the State Police; or a change in the statute as written and passed by the General Assembly, and then signed by the Governor, it appears that the State Police are improperly advising individuals to disobey the law, without having the lawful authority to tell people to do so.

    It is obvious that the Maryland State Police are trying to take extraordinary, and probably illegal steps, in order to reduce the backlog of handgun applications, given the limited number of days before they are supposed to have the HQL process up and running.

    This appears to be a blatant attempt by the Maryland State Police to reduce the number of court cases that may be filed against them, by reducing the number of plaintiffs who would not be able to take possession of their handgun if the law were followed as written.

    The Maryland State Police are supposed to be protecting the public, and encouraging people to abide by the law.

    Issuing an advisory saying that it is "fair, reasoned, and appropriate" to do something that is in direct contradiction to the laws written by the General Assembly, is not something a responsible and ethical law enforcement agency should do.

    Purposefully disregarding the law, and advising people to commit an otherwise illegal act, is gross misconduct in office.

    I demand that you take action to prevent the Maryland State Police from violating the law you passed, and that the Governor signed.


    NOTE: The MD SP took down the links shortly after I sent the email. Luckily I have copies of the pages, and sent them in a followup email.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Absolutely agree. This is like giving the legislature an out for their inability to do their job.
    Or paying for the parade permit just to have the mayor deny your rights because he doesn't like your words. No permit fee == no standing.

    One step at a time guys. Just cause you do it now doesn't make it right. But some steps need taking. When the time comes, the issues get handled.
     

    bohman

    Active Member
    May 20, 2012
    775
    St. Mary's
    This came from O'Malley. He is trying to cover bases but his ass is still hung out.

    'nuff said.

    Your concern is absolutely spot on.

    The MSP does not act on these issues unless directed specifically by the Gov's office. Gansler and he don't always get along, so I suspect some fireworks behind scenes. That said, the AG might have driven this.

    Go look at yesterday's hearing. This is not happening in a vacuum. They effed up and are trying to get out of jail, but nothing short of holding the entire licensing statute will work.

    This is desperation. It is not enough.

    I can't think of anything I've seen today that makes me happier than these two statements. Keep it up. :thumbsup:

    Anyone know why the MSP website is currently down? They hiding from Jesus or something?

    :lol2:
     

    TopShelf

    @TopShelfJS
    Feb 26, 2012
    1,743
    Wow, the next few weeks will be very interesting. Looks like full panic mode on the states behalf to me. Seems like one half-baked idea after another. Looking forward to the lawsuits!
     
    Last edited:

    Robert

    Having Fun Yet?
    May 11, 2011
    4,089
    AA County, MD
    Here is the email I sent to my delegate, senator, and everyone else on the list:


    Good evening,


    I have just read the Maryland State Police's recent press release dated September 24, 2013, titled:

    "FIREARM PURCHASE APPLICANTS WITH APPLICATIONS PENDING ON OCTOBER 1 WILL NOT NEED TO OBTAIN A HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE."

    and I am absolutely in shock at what it says.

    https://www.mdsp.org/News/PressRele...tail/mid/1088/xmid/21998/xmfid/4/Default.aspx

    In the press release it advises that:

    "The Maryland State Police (MSP) will not enforce the requirements of the new law with respect to applicants whose applications are pending as of October 1. It was widely understood that the new requirements would not be enforced as to applications that were pending before October 1."

    This is not only disturbing because they are telling people that it is OK to disregard a law passed by the General Assembly, but that go further to make a misleading and essentially false statement to support their directions.

    On the MDSP Licensing web page:

    https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/S...ion/Firearms/HandgunQualificationLicense.aspx

    It clearly says:

    "Unless otherwise exempt, as of October 1, 2013, a person must possess a valid Handgun Qualification License before they may purchase, rent, or receive a handgun. Details on exemptions may be found below. You do not need a Handgun Qualification License to own a gun you already have. The Handgun Qualification License is only needed for purchasing, transferring, or renting a regulated firearm after October 1, 2013."

    Nowhere on the page does it say that the requirements would not apply to applications for handguns made prior to Oct 1.

    Furthermore, given the written opinion provided by Assistant Attorney General Kathryn Rowe to Delegate Smigiel on August 1, 2013:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/158788674/AG-opinion

    Which clearly says that:

    " it is my view that after October 1, 2013 a person may not take delivery of, and a dealer may not deliver, a handgun to a person who does not have a handgun qualification license, even if the purchase was arranged before October 1, 2013."

    It is misleading for the State Police to have said that their new position on the HQL was widely known, let alone legally valid.

    Unlike the section of the law that made a provision for assault long guns that had a valid purchase order or application submitted before October 1, 2013,to be legally transferred after October 1, 2013, there is no similar provision in the law concerning handguns.

    Absent a written opinion from the Attorney General issued prior to the issuance of the September 24, 2013 by the State Police; or a change in the statute as written and passed by the General Assembly, and then signed by the Governor, it appears that the State Police are improperly advising individuals to disobey the law, without having the lawful authority to tell people to do so.

    It is obvious that the Maryland State Police are trying to take extraordinary, and probably illegal steps, in order to reduce the backlog of handgun applications, given the limited number of days before they are supposed to have the HQL process up and running.

    This appears to be a blatant attempt by the Maryland State Police to reduce the number of court cases that may be filed against them, by reducing the number of plaintiffs who would not be able to take possession of their handgun if the law were followed as written.

    The Maryland State Police are supposed to be protecting the public, and encouraging people to abide by the law.

    Issuing an advisory saying that it is "fair, reasoned, and appropriate" to do something that is in direct contradiction to the laws written by the General Assembly, is not something a responsible and ethical law enforcement agency should do.

    Purposefully disregarding the law, and advising people to commit an otherwise illegal act, is gross misconduct in office.

    I demand that you take action to prevent the Maryland State Police from violating the law you passed, and that the Governor signed.


    NOTE: The MD SP took down the links shortly after I sent the email. Luckily I have copies of the pages, and sent them in a followup email.

    Well said :thumbsup:

    Sent from my SCH-I545
     
    Last edited:

    MagnumFarce

    Active Member
    May 3, 2013
    226
    Centreville, MD
    With the vote in the AELR - nine legislators effectively said "Yes, the MSP can write their own regulations regardless of what is in SB281." They effectively nudged us a little closer to being a police state. I don't see that any of the disdain for this new policy, while well-intended, is going to amount to anything. The keys to the kingdom have already been passed on to the MSP.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,319
    I'm betting that the State will concede at least a 90-day delay in implementing the HQL. As of 1 Oct, it's the only option for them.
     

    6Den

    Active Member
    Feb 10, 2013
    835
    Howard County
    I do see this as them desperately trying to do damage control, breaking laws in the process. Too little too late. They're hanging themselves.
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Here is the email I sent to my delegate, senator, and everyone else on the list:


    Good evening,


    I have just read the Maryland State Police's recent press release dated September 24, 2013, titled:

    "FIREARM PURCHASE APPLICANTS WITH APPLICATIONS PENDING ON OCTOBER 1 WILL NOT NEED TO OBTAIN A HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE."

    and I am absolutely in shock at what it says.
    ...

    NOTE: The MD SP took down the links shortly after I sent the email. Luckily I have copies of the pages, and sent them in a followup email.

    Great letter. Talk about sowing the seeds for chaos. Seeing how active this board is tonight, one can only imagine the calls and emails flying back and forth between the Governor's office, the AG's office, and some of the legislators (some that will be prompted by correspondence such as the above). It will be too juicy for the Washington Post and Baltimore Sun not to cover, although the Washington Times will likely beat them all to it, e.g. with headlines like "Maryland State Police advises Maryland citizens to break the law on handgun purchases"
    :)
     

    RRHemi

    Active Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    728
    Annapolis, MD
    With the vote in the AELR - nine legislators effectively said "Yes, the MSP can write their own regulations regardless of what is in SB281." They effectively nudged us a little closer to being a police state. I don't see that any of the disdain for this new policy, while well-intended, is going to amount to anything. The keys to the kingdom have already been passed on to the MSP.

    We are F'd in this POC state!

    I think I will wait till 10/2 to try and purchase a handgun. F them! I refuse to play their game! Applying for HQL ASAP!!!

    Based on what I saw yesterday the MSP is free to do as they please. "We talked to a few people and decided it was a good idea." I will never forget, as goofy eyed Dems looked on...
     

    occbrian

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 3, 2013
    4,905
    in a cave
    Sorry MoM. But the AG is right. The law is pretty clear. Take a look at the word transfer.

    Tread lightly

    A DEALER OR ANY OTHER PERSON MAY NOT SELL, RENT, OR TRANSFER A REGULATED FIREARM HANDGUN TO A PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE UNLESS THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE PRESENTS TO THE DEALER OR OTHER PERSON A VALID REGULATED FIREARM HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE ISSUED TO THE PURCHASER, LESSEE, OR TRANSFEREE BY THE SECRETARY UNDER THIS SECTION."])
     

    pilotguy299

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 26, 2010
    1,809
    FredNeck County, MD
    Dealers take direction from MSP. If the MSP says dealers can/cannot do something, the AG would have a damn hard time pressing the matter. The MSP is the arbiter of the law for dealers. The AG just offers opinions. The MSP trump the AG, in general.

    This was not planned. They are in panic mode. Maybe the AG is on board after yesterday. There were signs that state people (Gov office, especially) were pretty upset after yesterdays events. They got caught with pants around ankles.


    But this is way beyond using reasonable discretion on a minor issue. This is outright telling people that they can ignore a law as long as it fits a parameter that exclusively benefits the MDSP.

    This is like telling people that they can ignore speed limit signs for the next two months because the MDSP ran out of tickets, and didn't feel like ordering more ticket books until just before they ran out.
     

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