AR Pistols and HQL

Sheepdog6 · Jul 5, 2015

Hey everyone, this may or may not have been addressed in othe threads but I couldn't find it so I apologize if I am beating a long dead horse. I recently spoke with a gentleman who told me that AR pistols are no longer legal to build in MD unless you purchased the lower receiver prior to some date within the last year. My understanding was that they are still legal unless there was a change to SB281 that I didn't hear about. Was there a change and if so, what changes were made?

Thanks for your help

mopar92 · Jul 5, 2015

AR pistols are legal for sale AND manufacture in the state of MD.
Active duty military and active duty law enforcement (In state or Federal ONLY) are exempt from HQL.
Retired military and retired law enforcement (In state or Federal ONLY) are also exempt from HQL.

If you served less than the minimum time to retire from those careers with the stipulations noted above then you MUST get an HQL BUT you are exempted from the training portion.

dontpanic · Jul 5, 2015

You can build an AR pistol in MD. No HQL needed.

The big change a year ago was being able to buy lowers again. After SB281 took effect we could not buy lowers until last summer. Thanks to a lot of very dedicated folks we can now buy new lowers.

These lowers can be built into any legal configuration. Including a HBAR rifle, a PISTOL or with a stamp into an SBR.

Good luck with your build.

outrider58 · Jul 5, 2015

Legal to build? Yes. As long as the lower you're building it on was never a rifle first(don't ask why).
Best to start anew with a virgin lower which in Md. requires a 77r and waiting period but, no HQL.

pilotguy299 · Jul 5, 2015

Actually it might be better to start with a so-called 80% AR15 lower:

http://www.stealtharms.net/shop/ar-series.html/

http://stealtharms.net/about/faqs/

No HQL or 77r required.

gungate · Jul 6, 2015

dontpanic said:
You can build an AR pistol in MD. No HQL needed.

The big change a year ago was being able to buy lowers again. After SB281 took effect we could not buy lowers until last summer. Thanks to a lot of very dedicated folks we can now buy new lowers.

These lowers can be built into any legal configuration. Including a HBAR rifle, a PISTOL or with a stamp into an SBR.

Good luck with your build.

So if you don't mind paying $200 extra, you could get a pre-ban configuration AR as long as it has a short barrel?

dontpanic · Jul 6, 2015

gungate said:
So if you don't mind paying $200 extra, you could get a pre-ban configuration AR as long as it has a short barrel?

Yep. As long as it < 16". And you have your stamp. All copycat laws also apply.

>= 29" OAL

No more than one of the following:

Folding stock ( collapsible is OK)
Flash hider
Grenade launcher

outrider58 · Jul 6, 2015

gungate said:
So if you don't mind paying $200 extra, you could get a pre-ban configuration AR as long as it has a short barrel?

If you mean ''get'' as in buy, I'd say no. If you already have a pre-banned AR, and want to convert it to an SBR, then yes. If I'm reading the question right.

NateIU10 · Jul 6, 2015

outrider58 said:
Legal to build? Yes. As long as the lower you're building it on was never a rifle first(don't ask why).
Best to start anew with a virgin lower which in Md. requires a 77r and waiting period but, no HQL.

Lowers don't need an HQL OR 77R.

outrider58 · Jul 6, 2015

NateIU10 said:
Lowers don't need an HQL OR 77R.

My mistake, thought I filled out a 77R for my stripped lower. What form was that?

Sheepdog6 · Jul 6, 2015

Gun gate, you read my mind. That is exactly what I'm doing, but I went the polymer route with JMT.

NateIU10 · Jul 6, 2015

outrider58 said:
My mistake, thought I filled out a 77R for my stripped lower. What form was that?

That was a 77R. MSP can't answer why a 77R is required, so we no longer do them for stripped or complete lowers. This is relatively recent for us, I don't think anyone else does them cash and carry at the moment, but we've been fighting with MSP on this for a long time.

pilotguy299 · Jul 6, 2015

WOW!!!

NateIU10 said:
That was a 77R. MSP can't answer why a 77R is required, so we no longer do them for stripped or complete lowers. This is relatively recent for us, I don't think anyone else does them cash and carry at the moment, but we've been fighting with MSP on this for a long time.

Now that is amazing! You guys ROCK!!!

outrider58 · Jul 6, 2015

NateIU10 said:
That was a 77R. MSP can't answer why a 77R is required, so we no longer do them for stripped or complete lowers. This is relatively recent for us, I don't think anyone else does them cash and carry at the moment, but we've been fighting with MSP on this for a long time.

"...and now you know...the rest of the story...good day!''

Thanks Nate :thumbsup:

pilotguy299 · Jul 6, 2015

NateIU10 said:
That was a 77R. MSP can't answer why a 77R is required, so we no longer do them for stripped or complete lowers. This is relatively recent for us, I don't think anyone else does them cash and carry at the moment, but we've been fighting with MSP on this for a long time.

Are you doing the same for pistol frames? If so, I'd be tempted to get three of these:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/1911/frame-slide-parts-kits/psa-1911-frame-45-5-ss.html

NateIU10 · Jul 6, 2015

pilotguy299 said:
Are you doing the same for pistol frames? If so, I'd be tempted to get three of these:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/1911/frame-slide-parts-kits/psa-1911-frame-45-5-ss.html

Up until this point frames like those were sold on a 77R no HQL. We had a Glock frame 77R voided, for lack of an HQL, and that is the straw that broke the camels back with the AR receivers and frames in general.

I am awaiting a formal response from Licensing Division, which took a TON of time and resources to get to this point. I will have a clearer answer in the next 2-3 weeks because I'm not sitting on "you'll get an answer whenever we feel like it" any longer and plan on forcing their hand in the next few days.

fidelity · Jul 6, 2015

NateIU10 said:
That was a 77R. MSP can't answer why a 77R is required, so we no longer do them for stripped or complete lowers. This is relatively recent for us, I don't think anyone else does them cash and carry at the moment, but we've been fighting with MSP on this for a long time.

Bravo. I'm no lawyer, but the mental gymnastics that would stipulate a 77R requirement based on current MD laws were elusive to me when they shifted policy on lower sales (which should never have been restricted given the allowance for HBAR sales). Based on this update, I'm going to buy a (forged) lower from you all this week, for a 300 BLK rifle build.

NateIU10 · Jul 6, 2015

fidelity said:
Bravo. I'm no lawyer, but the mental gymnastics that would stipulate a 77R requirement based on current MD laws were elusive to me when they shifted policy on lower sales (which should never have been restricted given the allowance for HBAR sales). Based on this update, I'm going to buy a (forged) lower from you all this week, for a 300 BLK rifle build.

Exactly. Regulated firearm transfers require a 77R. Regulated firearm means two types of firearms (1) Handguns and (2) the list we now refer to as Assault Long Guns. A handgun is a firearm with a barrel less than 16" in length for purposes of the 77R requirement. A lower can't be an ALG, they'd be illegal. If a firearm has no barrel it can't be a handgun. COMAR even distinguishes frames from frames with a breech face or firing pin for purposes of the shell casing requirement. It made no sense, but they know that. They know what they want the law to require, so they work backwards to figure out how the words support what they're doing.

I'll post a breakdown of everything that has happened at some point, but it's been exhausting.

dblas · Jul 6, 2015

outrider58 said:
If you mean ''get'' as in buy, I'd say no. If you already have a pre-banned AR, and want to convert it to an SBR, then yes. If I'm reading the question right.

Nope, brand new manufactured SBR's can be purchased. Currently they have to be on the Handgun Roster for approval, but that changes on Oct 1, 2015.

outrider58 · Jul 6, 2015

gungate said:
So if you don't mind paying $200 extra, you could get a pre-ban configuration AR as long as it has a short barrel?

Didn't read that to mean SBR. :shrug:

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