accuracy, dial in and sight questions

So I hit the range (happ-baker) with my CVA wolf for the first time. Other than a few rounds out of a .22, my first time really shooting a gun. I had a B of a time dialing in the sight. I think in part because I kept doubting that I was moving the sight in the right direction. The other two I had going against me was no spotter to help when I clean missed the target paper as well as the shooting boxes. My Wolf has fiber optic sights and in the box, they were dark as heck, making it sometimes hard to line-up the shot.

After 48 rounds and a really sore shoulder I think I have the sights dialed in reasonably close. I ran out of time though, so I can't be positive. I might have also had a bit of bruised shoulder gun shyness on the last few rounds, or the gun was just too dang hot. The last 3-4 rounds were way off even though I thought I was fairly lined up. I was only shooting at 25 and 50yds.

at 25 after the first few rounds and some adjustment I was pretty much right on (within the target rings, maybe 2" groups), but at 50 I kept not adjusting down far enough (in part because I kept doubting which way to adjust the sight). Then the last few rounds were fairly wild. The barrel wasn't quite so hot I couldn't touch it, but it was uncomfortably hot by the last few shots of the afternoon.

So, questions. Should I try a different sight? Or is this not something that'll be a big deal in actual hunting (IE not super dark where I am compared to the target). I was looking at the PeepRib sight for an aperture rear sight as well as being able to mount a scope on it easily later without removing the open sights. Anyone use this sight or other aperture sights? Are aperture sights particularly easier or more accurate than a fiber optic rear sight?

Was it really heat near the end? I was not perfectly measuring the powder, using marked blackhorn tubes at 110gr and trying to be accurate to the line. I would think being a few grains (+/- maybe 2) wouldn't throw off accuracy as much as I thought it was off at 50yds. Next time I'll probably pre-fill them on my scale before going to the range (bought an extra set of 6 so that I'll have 12 that I can take). I am also thinking of going down to 100gr till I am much more practiced. Also moving to 240gr .44. A bit sturdier and better ballistic coefficient and I am hoping the slightly thicker sabot petals will help accuracy when the barrel heats up during practice.

Or is this that I really suck that badly and need a massive amount more practice (yeah, I am sure that is a bit of it)? I was not yanking the trigger, I was doing what I thought was good breath control, sandbags so things weren't wavering a bunch, ignition was perceptibly spontaneous without any lag and so on.

If a lot of it was heat, any suggestions? Hunting it won't matter, which is what I care about the most, but I'd also like to be able to go to the range, not in mid winter, and be able to squeeze off more than half a dozen rounds before twiddling my thumbs for an hour waiting for the barrel to cool. The wife will not like the idea of buying a .22 to fill in the waiting time (which I want to do eventually anyway). Might the thicker sabots help (even if accuracy does go down some)? Swabbing with a soaking wet patch before a dry patch? I was just using some spit on a patch then a dry patch.

Any thoughts on dampening the recoil? Shoulder is still pretty sore today. Very little visible bruising. Maybe a folded over dish towel while at the range? Dropping back to 100gr pyrodex till I get more practiced? I was probably 12-15 rounds before it started getting uncomfortable and about 30 rounds in before my shoulder started to really ache. A few shoots is no big deal and hunting I'll probably have a few layers on too. I think I've discovered the problem of a light muzzleloader. Does a different powder, like FFFg triple 7 have the same or less recoil for the same volume measure of powder? I've read a lot that triple 7 has more velocity for the same volume measure as pyrodex, but does that also straight up equate to more recoil too? Or is it similar recoil for the same measure (IE burns more completely in the barrel instead of burning some out of the barrel)?

Anyway, I know a LONG post, but just starting out and hoping I can suck up some knowledge of some of the experienced ML shooters out there. Thanks!

First, the recoil can be tamed with a Limb Saver. I used one on my .308 and it helped a lot. Second, your problem can be any number of things. A quick search indicated that some guys using the CVA are getting 2"-3" groups at 100yds using heavier projectiles. (250gr) There is also some concern with the type of primer and projectile. I'd also make sure the barrel is good-to-go. Check to see if you're using the right projectiles for that barrel. You'll have to play around to find what combination works best. If that still doesn't help, practice, practice, practice.

I'd wait for Ed Shell (E.Shell) to chime in. Since you only have 11 posts, you may not know who he is. If not, listen to EVERYTHING he has to say.

Mind and ears wide open. Thanks!

Also I ordered a Williams ghost sight to replace the durasight fiber optic rear. I haven't found many who complain about aperture/ghost style sights. I think it may help with some of my issues of focusing front and rear on the sights back and forth before I "confirm" that I think I am on target.

I'll definitely look in to a limb saver, thanks!

Ditto on the Ed Shell comment. Question; With that many shots, how often were you cleaning the barrel? You might wanna try 50 gr. pellets(powder) to start out, then go to granular if you want to tweak your loads. I've always contended that it takes a minimum of two range trips to get a BP properly zeroed. Some, out there can do it in one but, it's always taken me two. Unlike with rifles, I prefer my fist 'hunting shot' to come from a clean, unfouled barrel, hence the second trip to the range. Also, try a variety of different projectiles staying in the 200-260gr. range(IMHO).

I was cleaning on every shot. A patch with spit and then a dry patch. On the target changes I was running two with spit and then a dry patch. After getting back I learned the wonderfulness that is cleaning a BP rifle. At least it was easy to disassemble.

I think one of my other issues was just "bad technique". I think with a bench I am crowding the rifle too much and that is leading to the shoulder bruising. It makes it hard for the rifle to push me on the recoil because of crowding and leaning down in to it too much (I am 6'1"). I think next time using one bag on the rear and stacking them a little higher would help. I'll also take a dish towel to throw on my shoulder if I need to after a few shots.

I am hoping that, plus a ghost sight will help out with the bruised shoulder and accuracy. That and I'll take my neighbor to have a spotter. I don't know what ya'll feeling on it is, but I keep reading on the internet that triple 7 produces less recoil for the same volume as Pyrodex AND it produces higher velocities at the same volume. It sounds kind of like a win-win. I don't mind swabbing between shots, I am with Pyrodex and most seem to think you can usually get a second shot off without swabbing with triple 7 if you need to, which hunting is all I'd probably ever get if I needed more than 1.

Trying to switch to 240gr .44 from 250gr .45 XTP to see how those do as well.

Fingers crossed. I had a hell of a lot of fun, even if it was a little frustrating and eventually painful. Working on the wife on the whole .22 WMR thing for target shooting (bunnies and groundhogs too. Coyotes if I ever have the chance). Few rounds of ML, switch to the .22 for a few minutes, back to the ML, rinse and repeat. Makes a cheaper date too since the .22 is so much cheaper per round (though can get a lot more of it down range, which I guess is NOT cheaper).

Move the rear sight in the direction you want the impact to move.

Always focus on the front sight.

Shoot a lot and your shoulder will get used to it.

Since you are new to shooting you will need a lot of practice to become proficient. I have shot for over a half century and put many thousands of rounds from a variety of firearms down range and I still need more practice to improve. Before you do to much practice find an instructor, coach, or mentor to watch what you are doing and make suggestions so you don't develop bad habits and reinforce those while practicing. Post where you are located and maybe someone will volunteer.

Get an air rifle (Pellet Type) and practice at home.

Lots of good help here:
http://thecmp.org/training-tech/coaching-resources/

Particularly the back issues of "On The Mark" (first two items listed) many good articles on basic marksmanship. Also the Shooting Tips from the USAMU Service Rifle Team, although it is directed to service rifle competition the basics are the same.

Here is a good reference to help you get started on the right path:
http://freepdfhosting.com/bdc5fbcb56.pdf

Changes you mention to your shooting position should help. I highly recommend you let that shoulder heal up a little before your next range trip with your BP. Shooting continuously with a sore shoulder can cause a person to develop a flinch which would be very bad and hard to overcome. Some trigger time with maybe a .22 or as Blacksmith101 recommended, a BB gun, would be a great way to continue to develop your form without the pain and allow your shoulder to heal.

I would definitely recommend you give 777 a go. I've taken as many as 4 shots in one day while hunting without a miss(that's three consecutive shots through a dirty barrel). I clean my barrel with warm water, that's it. Pyrodex is extremely corrosive, 777 is not. I shoot three pellet(150 grains) loads through my BP and get 1-1 1/2'' groups @ 100 yds.Good luck, hope this helps, Have fun!

Thanks! Neighbor was back in town and I talked to him. We are going to try to get to the range in a couple of weeks (shoulder almost healed up, though it turned a nasty yellow/green, but the muscles don't hurt and pushing on it is fine now). Sight in the new sight and then work on practice and good shooting form. He is going to bring his M1 and another couple of rifles and we will work mostly with those. I am also going to look at getting a BB gun so I can practice in my backyard as well as teach my kids gun safety.

lazarus said:

Thanks! Neighbor was back in town and I talked to him. We are going to try to get to the range in a couple of weeks (shoulder almost healed up, though it turned a nasty yellow/green, but the muscles don't hurt and pushing on it is fine now). Sight in the new sight and then work on practice and good shooting form. He is going to bring his M1 and another couple of rifles and we will work mostly with those. I am also going to look at getting a BB gun so I can practice in my backyard as well as teach my kids gun safety.

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Make it a pellet rifle they are much more accurate than a BB.

I strongly suspect that Shooter Fatigue was an issue at the end of your session. The fact is that a lightweight rifle shooting 110gr of BP (or equiv) actually does kick, and it gets cumulative.

.44 240gr XTPs showed up last night. They are significantly more streamlined, more than I thought they would have been, over the .45 250gr. Waiting on the ghost right sight today. Sadly my weekend is too booked to get back to the range. Will hopefully be going next weekend. I am hoping since my neighbor's GF will be swinging over to hang out with my wife while the two of us go to the range we can do a bit more of a half day trip and also "take it slower" and more relaxed to cut down on fatigue. Also taking some canteens this time instead of just buying a soda there to chug when I get dried out. After the first few shots to try to sight in the new sight, I'll go slow. Like 1 round per 5 minutes to allow cooling. Use a dish towel for some padding. Just real easy. Work on the lighter recoil center fires between and also go very slow and easy with them as well.

I am also going to do some basic bore sighting at home before going to the range if I can.

Will only be using 100gr of pyrodex RS this time and will pre-measure and fill my 12 Blackhorn (got another 6) powder tubes to try to be as accurate and consistent as possible with the first dozen rounds.

I figure I will get enough range time between now and hunting season to use up my .45 XTPs and my pyrodex and then switch to the .44 and triple 7 and adjust my sight on each switch. Supposing triple 7 and .44 240gr work well in my Wolf.

On triple 7, anyone have a preference for the clean burning (Winchester?) primers over CCI which I have now? I have a business trip towards philly in a couple of months and was planning to stop at the Cabela's at Christiana mall since they are a lot cheaper on powder than Bass pro (plus no sales tax) to get 2-3# of FFFg 777. Will get more primers as well. Thanks!

Only FTF I ever hat with my T/C was with Trip.7 primers. Other than that, I have no preferences in primers.