Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

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  • SWO Daddy

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2011
    2,468
    To be frank - if I were a dealer, I don't think I could ethically sell a .22lr pistol which is advertised as having 90% reliability to someone intending to use it for self defense.
     

    DC-W

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,290
    ️‍
    To be frank - if I were a dealer, I don't think I could ethically sell a .22lr pistol which is advertised as having 90% reliability to someone intending to use it for self defense.

    If you watch Andy's video on his facebook page, he didn't intend on selling it for such. He wanted to catch those who didn't want a regular firearm in the house for one reason or another, and just wanted something to take out to the range recreationally.

    I wouldn't want it for defense either.
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    To be frank - if I were a dealer, I don't think I could ethically sell a .22lr pistol which is advertised as having 90% reliability to someone intending to use it for self defense.

    Doesn't the video indicate the firearm was not specifically intended for self defense purposes, and he was not advocating for the technology to be used for such?

    Have been struggling with an analogy, plenty of car ones available, but doesn't fit in the rights category.

    Best one I could come up with. Imagine if there were a law saying once hologram technology becomes available for retail sales, it becomes the only mode of communication people can purchase/use. No more handwritten letters allowed.

    Given the sleeper law in NJ and knowing Eric Holder and his kind can't wait to "own" this system makes it ugly. This is not Engage's fault.

    Too bad the technology is tied to grabber motives.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,466
    MoCo
    Whoever threatened Andy, his family, dog, or coworkers should be brought up on charges. I just watched the video on facebook and I was appalled by this who incident. It seems to be Andy was mislead and it was almost a trap.

    I will be buying something from Andy in the near future.

    Those who threatened Andy and the gang have handed the antis a victory. The antis will point to the gun community as violent, and in need of more laws to control their outlandish behavior.

    Some folks are playing checkers while the government is playing chess.
     

    SWO Daddy

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2011
    2,468
    If you watch Andy's video on his facebook page, he didn't intend on selling it for such. He wanted to catch those who didn't want a regular firearm in the house for one reason or another, and just wanted something to take out to the range recreationally.

    I wouldn't want it for defense either.

    Ok, that sounds fine (I can't/don't facebook, so I didn't see the video). In the WaPo article it appeared that this was being marketed for self defense.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,466
    MoCo
    You did notice the "yet" in there, right? ;)

    Do you know what "yet" stands for? You're Eligible Too.

    Of course, MD would jump right on this. Wanna bet Frosh has legislation requiring smart guns sitting in his desk drawer right now?

    Since the threads were metered, this disappeared... It's the NJ code citation. (Emphasis mine.)

    2C:58-2.3 Reports as to availability of personalized handguns.

    2. a. On the first day of the sixth month following the effective date of P.L.2002, c.130 (C.2C:58-2.2 et al.), the Attorney General shall report to the Governor and the Legislature as to the availability of personalized handguns for retail sales purposes. If the Attorney General determines that personalized handguns are not available for retail sales purposes, the Attorney General, every six months thereafter, shall report to the Governor and the Legislature as to the availability of personalized handguns for retail sales purposes until such time as the Attorney General shall deem that personalized handguns are available for retail sales purposes and so report to the Governor and the Legislature. In making this determination, the Attorney General may consult with any other neutral and detached public or private entity that may have useful information and expertise to assist in determining whether, through performance and other relevant indicators, a handgun meets the statutory definition of a personalized handgun set forth in N.J.S.2C:39-1.

    b.For the purposes of this section, personalized handguns shall be deemed to be available for retail sales purposes if at least one manufacturer has delivered at least one production model of a personalized handgun to a registered or licensed wholesale or retail dealer in New Jersey or any other state. As used in this subsection, the term "production model" shall mean a handgun which is the product of a regular manufacturing process that produces multiple copies of the same handgun model, and shall not include a prototype or other unique specimen that is offered for sale.

    http://statutes.laws.com/new-jersey/title-2c/section-2c-58/2c-58-2-3

    Like SUGARMANN, JOSHUA ALAN, founder and Executive Director of the Violence policy center getting an FFL, in DC? That could never happen, you have to engage in the business to get an FFL.

    Oh, wait, he DOES have an FFL...In DC.
    SUGARMANN, JOSHUA ALAN 1730 RHODE ISLAND AVE NW #1014 WASHINGTON DC 20036 1730 RHODE ISLAND AVE NW #1014 WASHINGTON DC 20036 2028228200

    https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...il/XLS/0414-ffl-list-district-of-columbia.xls

    To "blame" Engage for anything here is ludicrous. They are, and always have been, on our side.

    Pulling things together, read the NJ law from post #255. It takes ONE retail sale to start the three year clock running. Now read the above quoted post #118 about Sugarman. One single FFL who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, maybe Sugarman, maybe someone else, will sell just one of these guns with news cameras rolling, and you will hear the buyer or dealer openly challenge NJ to start the three year countdown. This is just one possible scenario. To think for a moment that stopping Engage would accomplish anything useful for us is silly and naïve. To be crude, let alone advocate violence, plays right into the antis hands.

    A retail sale will happen soon, starting the NJ clock. Someone in the MGA will introduce a bill when the next catalyst event occurs. These things are certain. We don't address these underlying problems by jumping Andy. We need to attack them at the source.
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    The best way to show there is no demand is to show there is no demand by offering it, and no one shows up. You have a problem with the anti gunners mandating this technology, as does everyone. But if someone wants this technology, whats the problem, so long as people can choose, or not choose?

    I think you answered your own question.

    The problem I see, is that not only well the technological "wonders" be mandated, but anything that isn't will be outlawed, thus amounting to a de facto ban.

    Then all will become right with the world as everything becomes sunshine and rainbows.:rolleyes:
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    Pulling things together, read the NJ law from post #255. It takes ONE retail sale to start the three year clock running. Now read the above quoted post #118 about Sugarman. One single FFL who is a wolf in sheep's clothing, maybe Sugarman, maybe someone else, will sell just one of these guns with news cameras rolling, and you will hear the buyer or dealer openly challenge NJ to start the three year countdown. This is just one possible scenario. To think for a moment that stopping Engage would accomplish anything useful for us is silly and naïve. To be crude, let alone advocate violence, plays right into the antis hands.

    A retail sale will happen soon, starting the NJ clock. Someone in the MGA will introduce a bill when the next catalyst event occurs. These things are certain. We don't address these underlying problems by jumping Andy. We need to attack them at the source.

    It seems to me, from that code section, NJ's clock starts tolling whenever a Manufacturer delivered the firearm to an FFL (wholesale or retail). I would say that has already occurred, and Engage had nothing to do with that. Oak Tree stated they had the gun for over a year before they got backlash in March.
     

    Robert

    Having Fun Yet?
    May 11, 2011
    4,089
    AA County, MD
    You did notice the "yet" in there, right? ;)

    Do you know what "yet" stands for? You're Eligible Too.

    Of course, MD would jump right on this. Wanna bet Frosh has legislation requiring smart guns sitting in his desk drawer right now?

    Since the threads were metered, this disappeared... It's the NJ code citation. (Emphasis mine.)

    http://statutes.laws.com/new-jersey/title-2c/section-2c-58/2c-58-2-3

    :D Yes, thankfully I do. I guess my point is there is no such thing as yet when it comes to § 5-132 in MD and our current representative body.

    As soon as these things have a 'proven' track record and gain traction, it's a done deal for us.

    Now all that could change come November.... :innocent0
     

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