A warning on carrying spring-assisted knives.

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  • Oct 21, 2008
    9,273
    St Mary's
    The more I hear stuff like this and responses like this:
    I always take knives away from people all the time. I mean I give them the knives back at the conclusion of my investigaton but thats if they aren't coming with me and no crime has been committed.

    the more I want to leave the peoples republic. Sorry no offense to you mpdc, but you have no right to confiscate anything without cause.
    NOt LEO bashing either won't stand for that but this isn't what our country should look like.

    So far in the thread we have "the police need probable cause to search you" which is correct in the actual term. However to PAT YOU DOWN and TAKE A WEAPON which occured they dont need probable cause.

    They should. Nobody should have the right to just pat anyone down for no reason. Again another reason to leave MD.
     

    Redcobra

    Senior Shooter
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 10, 2010
    6,422
    Near the Chesapeake Bay
    That part was not aimed at you....the first part was.

    So far in the thread we have "the police need probable cause to search you" which is correct in the actual term. However to PAT YOU DOWN and TAKE A WEAPON which occured they dont need probable cause.

    Someone else said folders shorter then a 3 inch blade are legal...wrong there is not length requirement.

    These threads always get sideways because people "think" they know something that's very complexed and every changing which is the criminal justice system.

    So, you are saying that a Police Officer can stop me on the street for no reason whatsoever and PAT ME DOWN?
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    So, you are saying that a Police Officer can stop me on the street for no reason whatsoever and PAT ME DOWN?

    I'm not saying that at all.

    I'm saying the Supreme Court has stated that police do not need PROBABLE CAUSE to pat someone down.

    The police need REASONABLE SUSPICION which a good bit less then "PROBABLE CAUSE".

    And for the record...I'm not saying any of this. The Supreme Court and the law of the land is saying this.

    There is also a potential Plain VIEW expection in this particular case depending on many details of the encounter which were not given by the OP.

    Is it "reasonable" for an officer to see a knife (obviously could be used a weapon) and during a legal encounter "pat down" the subject and take that knife......I dont think you'll find a court in the country to say that's a bad "seizure".

    However I'm not a lawyer....it doesnt need to be an "illegal" weapon for the police to seize it depending on the encounter.
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    They should. Nobody should have the right to just pat anyone down for no reason. Again another reason to leave MD.


    These are case law from the Supreme Court making them law of the land. Nothing to do with MD regarding the search and seizure aspect.

    You'd have to leave America to escape it.
     
    Oct 21, 2008
    9,273
    St Mary's
    These are case law from the Supreme Court making them law of the land. Nothing to do with MD regarding the search and seizure aspect.

    You'd have to leave America to escape it.

    Didn't know that and it still doesn't make it right...I'll bet it's less likely to happen in say, West Virginia, or Idaho or any or 30 or so other states than MD or DC.
     

    STSCM

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 25, 2008
    1,597
    Lusby, MD
    Didn't know that and it still doesn't make it right...I'll bet it's less likely to happen in say, West Virginia, or Idaho or any or 30 or so other states than MD or DC.

    You're right, it all depends on how the state wishes to enforce it. This is the law of the land? Does anyone have John Galts address?
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Didn't know that and it still doesn't make it right...I'll bet it's less likely to happen in say, West Virginia, or Idaho or any or 30 or so other states than MD or DC.

    Maybe the OP's encounter regarding getting charged wouldn't have happened as some states do not have knife laws on their books.

    However based off of the very vague first post I'd venture to say the "search and seizure" aspect of this would happen in MOST STATES.
     
    Oct 21, 2008
    9,273
    St Mary's
    Maybe the OP's encounter regarding getting charged wouldn't have happened as some states do not have knife laws on their books.

    However based off of the very vague first post I'd venture to say the "search and seizure" aspect of this would happen in MOST STATES.

    By your own admission we don't know the full circumstances of the encounter so how can you say it was justified? Again, pat-downs without probable cause should not be allowed nor should confiscation of a LEGAL knife just because.
    I see "Protect and Serve" on the side of many police cars where does this come in?
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    the fact that they could see the knife before taking it from you should mean that it was not concealed. an arguable point at least.

    still want more details
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    By your own admission we don't know the full circumstances of the encounter so how can you say it was justified? Again, pat-downs without probable cause should not be allowed nor should confiscation of a LEGAL knife just because.

    Okay I'll agree to disagree.

    Terry V. Ohio is what places the ground work for "reasonable suspicion" pat downs.

    It's been this way since the 1960's so it's not earther shattering or ground breaking in terms of whats legal and illegal.

    I have no idea what your knowledge base is...but aruging over the two terms without having a clear definition of what the two terms means is silly.

    And I'm okay with a temporary seizure of a weapon by police for safety concerns. If it turns out the weapon is illegal then it's confisicated....that seems pretty basic to me and doesnt seem like we are losing civil rights over it since it's been that way for over 50 years now.
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,932
    Yeah streetgang I do it for safety and in fact I have line , "sir remind me to give you your knife back at the conclusion of out encounter as I don't like taking another mans things" and as name taken mentioned please read Terry v Ohio actually while ur at it read Pennsylvania vs Mims. The supreme court has recognized the danger of the job and alloted US certain tools so we have a better chance at going home. I guess its beating a dead horse at this point due to lack of knowledge of the unrelated incident but did anyone look up their local ordinances?

    I'm not condoneing any actions taken by anyone I'd obviously like to know more but as mentioned I believe its a time place circumstances arrest
     

    gamer_jim

    Podcaster
    Feb 12, 2008
    13,233
    Hanover, PA
    Hey yall,


    I know a lot of us like the spring assisted knives - they are very useful tools. I use mine many times a day. Well, I used to, before I had it confiscated by the cops.

    I was questioned by some cops for a matter unrelated to the knife. In the middle of having a conversation with a couple of Hagerstown PD officers, one of them proceeded to yank the knife right from out of my pocket. It was hanging inside it by the clip, you know, how they are designed to hang.

    Upon discovering that the knife was of the spring-assisted variety, I was cuffed and perp-walked to jail. I've been charged with having a concealed deadly weapon and now have to waste money on defending myself against this bogus charge. To add insult to injury, I was told that I am not getting the knife back ($120 benchmade) because it's now evidence and will have to take it up with CLEO if I have a problem with it.

    I guess these local yokels don't know that first of all, a just because one can be injured with a knife does not make it a weapon. Just because G. Gordon Liddy can kill you with a #2 pencil by sticking it thru your eye into your brain, does not make the pencil a deadly weapon. And of course they don't know that spring assisted knives are not illegal.


    :mad54::mad54::mad54::mad54:
    1) shut up
    2) get an attorney
     

    jaypark

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 29, 2009
    3,471
    peoples republic of MOCO
    the more I want to leave the peoples republic. Sorry no offense to you mpdc, but you have no right to confiscate anything without cause.
    N

    safety issue cousin and to remove in the course of an investigation is temporary whereas confiscation is more permanent


    Terry vs Ohio for info on pat down info cophaters
     

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    I would anonymously call your local PD and ask about the local laws regarding carrying a blade. This may tip you off as to what you are actually up against. I would also hire a local attorney familiar with local laws and code, not someone out of the area.
     

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