Need advice on RCBS dies for .223 that will be used in AR

DaemonAssassin · Jul 21, 2014

Speed3 said:
Well I'm purchasing a suppressor so I guess I will jump on the 300blk bandwagon also lol. I might have to stop over to see how you are cutting your brass down.

And yes shamrock, reports on your service rifle . August 23rd fclass match in Cumberland, if you want to shoot you can ride with us.

I haven't gotten the 300 upper yet. Need to get the funds together for it, along with my LPK and stock. Once all that happens I'll probably go RCBS and then get the Dillon quick change kit and caliber conversion kit. I already have a small mountain of 223 brass at home, that I need to figure out what I want to do with, once I get the dies, quick change, and caliber conversion kit.

DaemonAssassin · Jul 21, 2014

Shamr0ck said:
When looking at the 550 - 650 - 1050 decision, I looked at the difference in price and then how much I realistically shoot to see how long it would take to recoup the increased initial investment.

Plus since I was just starting, being able to run the 550 as a single stage was an attractive option for me

No rounds down the tube if either the WOA service rifle upper not the shilen build yet.

Really need to get off my @zz and chose/buy an optic.

Workin on it - I'll mark the date for FClass.

Thanks!

--
Shamr0ck

If you want to spend the money, go Vortex. I'm thinking about their longer range scope, that Mark at PF has for 750.

fabsroman · Jul 21, 2014

Speed3 said:
Well I'm purchasing a suppressor so I guess I will jump on the 300blk bandwagon also lol. I might have to stop over to see how you are cutting your brass down.

And yes shamrock, reports on your service rifle . August 23rd fclass match in Cumberland, if you want to shoot you can ride with us.

Watch from about the 4 minute mark. Dillon fans will like it a lot. Think I am going to go this route for forming .300 AAC. Seems as though it is the fastest route possible. Of course, the trimmer runs about $250.

fabsroman · Jul 21, 2014

Shamr0ck said:
When looking at the 550 - 650 - 1050 decision, I looked at the difference in price and then how much I realistically shoot to see how long it would take to recoup the increased initial investment.

Plus since I was just starting, being able to run the 550 as a single stage was an attractive option for me

No rounds down the tube if either the WOA service rifle upper not the shilen build yet.

Really need to get off my @zz and chose/buy an optic.

Workin on it - I'll mark the date for FClass.

Thanks!

--
Shamr0ck

My hobbies rotate. Was doing a ton of hunting and shooting before marriage and kids. More so the kids put a damper on it. However, not that the kids are getting a little more self sufficient, I am getting back to shooting.

I already know how my thought process goes. Bought the Mec 600 Jr. for shotguns and then went to the Mec 9000G. Now, I am looking at the Spolar Gold with the hydraulic option. If I start with the 550, I'll probably end up with the 1050 at some point.

When I do the cost comparison, who the heck knows how it will turn out over the next 30 years. I have had my Mec 9000G machines for 20 years now and I am pretty sure they have paid for themselves in spades.

Got some .223 brass in today's mail and my two oldest kids wanted to go downstairs and start loading them up. My oldest wanted to shoot her pellet gun in the basement and already has her eyes set on a pink 10/22. If my kids get involved in hunting and shooting, even one of them with the passion I have, I am going to need an automated reloading system. My son definitely reminds me of myself when I was his age. I wanted to go hunting with my dad whenever I could.

fabsroman · Jul 21, 2014

Thanks for the replies everybody. Think I am going to go with the AR small base dies on this one because the thought of having to deal with a live round stuck in the gun just isn't very exciting for me.

fabsroman · Jul 21, 2014

Jaybeez said:
get the lee dies, with the factory crimp.

they are the cheapest, and least prone to break decappers. they work just as well an anything else.

factory crimp allows you to seat and crimp in seperate stations, so you can bulk load without worrying about dead uniform case length.

Been going with the RCBS X-Sizer so I didn't have to trim after the initial trimming and then the Lee factory crimp dies afterward.

Guess I should crimp the loads for the AR too then. Always thought it was an accuracy thing for bolt guns and if you weren't shooting long range it was overkill. Anyway, the factory crimp is pretty quick and easy. Actually, it is all pretty easy. Just adding all the steps together makes it take a while.

These are the dies I currently have:

jimbobborg · Jul 22, 2014

Don't forget to get a primer pocket swager for that 5.56 brass. Dillon and RCBS make versions of it. You'll find that the small base dies will cause problems with the RCBS swager.

armed ferret · Jul 22, 2014

6 different ARs, some wylde and some 5.56, no issues with a myriad of headstamps on both .223 and 5.56 brass with standard Lee dies.

Plus they cheap.

ETA: I have a spare factory crimp die from lee. Can't remember if I offered it up but it's yours (gratis of course) if you have a hankerin.

Pinecone · Jul 22, 2014

The one advantage to the 1050 is that it will swage the primer pocket in the same pass as loading the round. I do two passes with my 650. First pass decaps and deprimes. Then I swage witha Dillon 600 Super Swager. Then I run the brass through the press again to prime, add powder, and bullet. Later reloading of the same brass can be done with a single pass through the press.

AFAIK, it is harder and more expensive to change calibers on the 1050 versus the 550/650. Caliber conversion kits is $121 for 1050, versus $78 for 650, $46 for 550.

Also 1050 will not load cases like 300 Win Mag. The press stroke is too short. IIRC, has the longest stroke, but 650 will load the big magnums.

And as I mentioned, 1050 has 1 year warranty, versus lifetime for the 550/650.

Personally, the 650 with case feeder is better for most people. Add a 600 Super Swager if you have military once fired brass.

Also, I would try a regular die first, before getting the small base dies. The small base dies work the brass more, so less reloading of each case before it is not usable.

The Dillon dies are a bit better in a Dillon press than RCBS and others. They have a longer threaded portion for more adjustment and the sizing die has a wider mouth to align cases entering the sizing die better.

For pistol the seating die is easily taken apart fo cleaning if you load lead (lead and lube build up) without changing the setting on the die.

fabsroman · Jul 22, 2014

armed ferret said:
6 different ARs, some wylde and some 5.56, no issues with a myriad of headstamps on both .223 and 5.56 brass with standard Lee dies.

Plus they cheap.

ETA: I have a spare factory crimp die from lee. Can't remember if I offered it up but it's yours (gratis of course) if you have a hankerin.

AF,

You did offer it up and I initially declined because I did not think I was going to be crimping these rounds. After reading this thread, it appears that I will be crimping them, so if you still have it I will gladly take it with a thank you. We will just have to work out the logistics of getting together.

fabsroman · Jul 22, 2014

Pinecone said:
The one advantage to the 1050 is that it will swage the primer pocket in the same pass as loading the round. I do two passes with my 650. First pass decaps and deprimes. Then I swage witha Dillon 600 Super Swager. Then I run the brass through the press again to prime, add powder, and bullet. Later reloading of the same brass can be done with a single pass through the press.

AFAIK, it is harder and more expensive to change calibers on the 1050 versus the 550/650. Caliber conversion kits is $121 for 1050, versus $78 for 650, $46 for 550.

Also 1050 will not load cases like 300 Win Mag. The press stroke is too short. IIRC, has the longest stroke, but 650 will load the big magnums.

And as I mentioned, 1050 has 1 year warranty, versus lifetime for the 550/650.

Personally, the 650 with case feeder is better for most people. Add a 600 Super Swager if you have military once fired brass.

Also, I would try a regular die first, before getting the small base dies. The small base dies work the brass more, so less reloading of each case before it is not usable.

The Dillon dies are a bit better in a Dillon press than RCBS and others. They have a longer threaded portion for more adjustment and the sizing die has a wider mouth to align cases entering the sizing die better.

For pistol the seating die is easily taken apart fo cleaning if you load lead (lead and lube build up) without changing the setting on the die.

Thanks for the info. Doubt I will ever be loading long action cartridges on a progressive. I don't shoot much of the .270, .30-06, .300 Win Mag as it is. I could probably load a decade's supply for all three cartridges in a single sitting. Probably wouldn't load the other cartridges for my other bolt guns on a progressive either. So, the 1050 is still a possibility for me.

The entire die question is driving me nuts. Think I am going to go with the small base dies for self defense rounds that I need to rely on, the full length X-sizer dies for the RockChucker, and then buy the Dillon dies when I buy a Dillon press.

Options are nice, until they make one agonize over making a decision.

mopar92 · Jul 22, 2014

Fabsroman. I've got some 5.56 and .223 brass with your name on it. If you want I can show you a bit about the AR platform and how to work it properly. And get you a good set up.

fabsroman · Jul 23, 2014

mopar92 said:
Fabsroman. I've got some 5.56 and .223 brass with your name on it. If you want I can show you a bit about the AR platform and how to work it properly. And get you a good set up.

Thanks Mopar, I'll take you up on the offer. Just shoot me a pm and let me know when and where I can pick the brass up. I don't live that far from SNI.

As far as the AR is concerned, I have already built up a couple. Seemed pretty simple. Not exactly what I want in my ARs, but something that will most likely go bang and fire bullets out the barrel for now. I just need to try them out.

Like almost everything I do when it comes to guns, hunting, shooting, cycling, and fishing, I tend to go overboard, but cheaped out on the triggers and uppers for these initial builds because the SB281 budget was TIGHT. My dream rifle is a JP Rifle CTR-02. Bought the upper and lower combo last year and now I need to start amassing the rest of the parts. Thing is, after my SB281 buying, I need to get this stuff in small amounts or my wife may turn a gun on me at the range by "accident". I would really like to put Geissele triggers on all of them, but ordering a bunch of them at once would not be good for my marriage. My wife is extremely understanding when it comes to my hobbies, but even she has limits.

How about I get some ammo together and we go shooting. Still need to figure out what optics I want on these things. Wanted an ACOG, but see the "harmonious marriage" reference above. lol Wouldn't mind looking over some of your stuff and getting whatever education you can give me. I am all for learning almost anything from almost anybody I can.

DaemonAssassin · Jul 23, 2014

fabsroman said:
Thanks Mopar, I'll take you up on the offer. Just shoot me a pm and let me know when and where I can pick the brass up. I don't live that far from SNI.

As far as the AR is concerned, I have already built up a couple. Seemed pretty simple. Not exactly what I want in my ARs, but something that will most likely go bang and fire bullets out the barrel for now. I just need to try them out.

Like almost everything I do when it comes to guns, hunting, shooting, cycling, and fishing, I tend to go overboard, but cheaped out on the triggers and uppers for these initial builds because the SB281 budget was TIGHT. My dream rifle is a JP Rifle CTR-02. Bought the upper and lower combo last year and now I need to start amassing the rest of the parts. Thing is, after my SB281 buying, I need to get this stuff in small amounts or my wife may turn a gun on me at the range by "accident". I would really like to put Geissele triggers on all of them, but ordering a bunch of them at once would not be good for my marriage. My wife is extremely understanding when it comes to my hobbies, but even she has limits.

How about I get some ammo together and we go shooting. Still need to figure out what optics I want on these things. Wanted an ACOG, but see the "harmonious marriage" reference above. lol Wouldn't mind looking over some of your stuff and getting whatever education you can give me. I am all for learning almost anything from almost anybody I can.

As much as you want an ACOG now, would you be willing to settle for an Aimpoint PRO?

fabsroman · Jul 23, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:
As much as you want an ACOG now, would you be willing to settle for an Aimpoint PRO?

lol - at this point I'd be willing to settle for anything that gets me on target with some efficiency. Hell, iron sights are better than nothing. I've just got to start putting stuff together and shooting.

While I was at the hearing today, my wife texted me "I think I should learn how to use my handgun." lol Been a year since she bought it, I have the ammo on the shelf, and we have yet to find the time to go to a range and shoot. Actually, probably a babysitting issue more than time issue, but time is a factor in there too.

DaemonAssassin · Jul 23, 2014

fabsroman said:
lol - at this point I'd be willing to settle for anything that gets me on target with some efficiency. Hell, iron sights are better than nothing. I've just got to start putting stuff together and shooting.

While I was at the hearing today, my wife texted me "I think I should learn how to use my handgun." lol Been a year since she bought it, I have the ammo on the shelf, and we have yet to find the time to go to a range and shoot. Actually, probably a babysitting issue more than time issue, but time is a factor in there too.

In that case, I have an offer for you. I'll let you check out what it is like to use an Aimpoint, so you can see if you like it, before you buy one. I'm currently running the Aimpoint Comp M2 on my HD AR and the Comp M2 is slightly different that the Aimpoint PRO in a few ways, but it'll at least let you get the feel of one. One question for you, since I'm right up I-70 from you. Where can you shoot it?

Pinecone · Jul 23, 2014

fabsroman said:
Thanks for the info. Doubt I will ever be loading long action cartridges on a progressive. I don't shoot much of the .270, .30-06, .300 Win Mag as it is. I could probably load a decade's supply for all three cartridges in a single sitting. Probably wouldn't load the other cartridges for my other bolt guns on a progressive either. So, the 1050 is still a possibility for me.

The entire die question is driving me nuts. Think I am going to go with the small base dies for self defense rounds that I need to rely on, the full length X-sizer dies for the RockChucker, and then buy the Dillon dies when I buy a Dillon press.

Options are nice, until they make one agonize over making a decision.

Like I said, the ONLY advantage of the 1050 is the swaging. Is it worth that much to you (initial cost) and lack of lifetime warranty?

As for dies, using Dillon dies, with them properly adjusted to set the shoulder back enough, they drop freely into a Wilson case gauge. So they are to SAAMI specs.

Small base dies are SELDOM required.

And not wanting to start another debate, but for the few rounds needed, I use factory rounds for HD. Reloads for practicing and playing around.

fabsroman · Jul 27, 2014

mopar92 said:
Fabsroman. I've got some 5.56 and .223 brass with your name on it. If you want I can show you a bit about the AR platform and how to work it properly. And get you a good set up.

Big THANK YOU to Mopar for stopping by today and dropping off a couple hundred once fired rounds and showing me a thing or two about an AR. Figured a public thank you is appropriate.

Still have to buy some dies and get this process started. Realized I need more small rifle primers too because 200 in inventory is NOT going to be enough. Probably going to need some powder too. Sadly, I hate trying to find components in the current environment. Guess it could be worse.

mopar92 · Jul 27, 2014

If you're not doing anything tomorrow and can squeak away from the wife for a bit. Me, Lou and SNI are rolling down to Chantilly tomorrow if ya wanna have a looksee.

fabsroman · Jul 27, 2014

mopar92 said:
If you're not doing anything tomorrow and can squeak away from the wife for a bit. Me, Lou and SNI are rolling down to Chantilly tomorrow if ya wanna have a looksee.

Tomorrow is already shot. The next 8 days are pretty much toast for me with a crapload of work and childcare that I have to deal with. Wish I could go. Couldn't even stick my head into the Howard County gun show last weekend. Thanks for the offer though and it was great sitting down and talking with you today.

Need advice on RCBS dies for .223 that will be used in AR

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