ATF 41P Responsible Person Questionnaire

anderson76 · Oct 22, 2014

As many of you are aware, when/if ATF 41P goes into effect, a “responsible person” for a trust will have to submit a questionnaire along with any From 1, 4 or 5. The proposed Responsible Person Questionnaire has been posted on anther sight:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?158359-ATF-Form-23-CLEO-for-Trusts-and-Corps

shootin the breeze · Oct 22, 2014

And, as they want, the day that starts is the last day I buy a can or sbr.

rob-cubed · Oct 22, 2014

So this would have to be filed by each "responsible person" EVERY TIME a new Form 1/4/5 is submitted.

Figures they'd make it as big of a pain in the ass as possible, and not require a one-time-only submission for each trustee to access the trust's property.

I know that the F in BATFE stands for... :sad20:

erwos · Oct 22, 2014

Folks, this is just a draft, and as far as I know, dates back to when all this started. The rules have not been formulated or finalized.

Anderson, stop being such a ****ing troll. We get that you have your own opinions as a lawyer, but getting people riled up over NO NEWS is irresponsible.

bobthefisher · Oct 22, 2014

This will effectively make NFA trusts pointless and too hard to obtain, especially if these forms have to be done for each submission. But, of course, that's what they want. Time to add another stamp to my collection.

SRD · Oct 22, 2014

erwos said:
Folks, this is just a draft, and as far as I know, dates back to when all this started. The rules have not been formulated or finalized.

Anderson, stop being such a ****ing troll. We get that you have your own opinions as a lawyer, but getting people riled up over NO NEWS is irresponsible.

Serious question though since I'm ignorant on NFA stuff.If this were to go through,would it only be for "new" acquisitions or also include items already on the trust?

bobthefisher · Oct 22, 2014

SRD said:
Serious question though since I'm ignorant on NFA stuff.If this were to go through,would it only be for "new" acquisitions or also include items already on the trust?

New acquisitions.

SRD · Oct 22, 2014

Thanks.^^

Drmsparks · Oct 22, 2014

It's a freaking nics form with the CLEO signature on it.

What's the big deal (other than CLEO sucks sucks and not having to deal with that hassle is why most of us got a trust to start with)?

Not getting a trust, you do the same thing anyway, and the trust takes care of spousal ambiguities assuming your spouse is on the trust (and anyone who thinks that doesn't matter needs to pay attention to the wife of a felon with guns thread)

erwos · Oct 22, 2014

Depends on how they define responsible person.

If it's one person on the trust, no big deal.

If it's every trustee, that could potentially be a PITA. You want to haul your spouse in for fingerprinting every time you want to file a form 1? I certainly don't.

rouchna · Oct 22, 2014

This is definitely an old draft however, we need to keep a close eye on what's going on. I hope this sh*t never makes it through. I may need to send in another form1 before the full retard begins.

shootin the breeze · Oct 22, 2014

erwos said:
Folks, this is just a draft, and as far as I know, dates back to when all this started. The rules have not been formulated or finalized.

Anderson, stop being such a ****ing troll. We get that you have your own opinions as a lawyer, but getting people riled up over NO NEWS is irresponsible.

I realize that isn't the final iteration but, like brownstain will most likely be governor, this or something similarly onerous will most likely come to pass. I hope I'm wrong and will be overjoyed if I am but I'm not holding my breath.

erwos · Oct 22, 2014

shootin the breeze said:
I realize that isn't the final iteration but, like brownstain will most likely be governor, this or something similarly onerous will most likely come to pass. I hope I'm wrong and will be overjoyed if I am but I'm not holding my breath.

This has nothing to do with the MD elections.

rob-cubed · Oct 22, 2014

erwos said:
Folks, this is just a draft, and as far as I know, dates back to when all this started. The rules have not been formulated or finalized

Thanks for that. I dont doubt something new is in the works for Jan but hopefully its not this egregious. Anyone going through the expense of owning an NFA item is most definitely not a criminal. I could buy an illegal item much cheaper...

anderson76 · Oct 22, 2014

erwos said:
Folks, this is just a draft, and as far as I know, dates back to when all this started. The rules have not been formulated or finalized.

Anderson, stop being such a ****ing troll. We get that you have your own opinions as a lawyer, but getting people riled up over NO NEWS is irresponsible.

Settle down bud. I am aware that the proposed regs have been out there for a while. However, this is the first time I saw the Responsible Person Questionnaire.

What opinions or agenda do you think that I am trying to push? Do you really think that I am trying to drum up business for Rusty or something? Whoever said anything about me being a lawyer? I don’t even have one of those idiotic disclaimers in my sig.

erwos said:
Depends on how they define responsible person.

If it's one person on the trust, no big deal.

If it's every trustee, that could potentially be a PITA. You want to haul your spouse in for fingerprinting every time you want to file a form 1? I certainly don't.

This is what struck me about the form. This is new news (at least to me). This was not clear from the proposed regs.

What struck me was how broadly they defined the term “response person” and the consequence it will have on the use of a trust vehicle going forward as well as the impact it will have on those desiring to make trustee or beneficiary changes to current trusts.

ATF 41P Responsible Person Questionnaire

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