Go Back   Maryland Shooters > Topics of Interest > Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 3rd, 2009, 10:33 AM   #1
ThePhantomPatriot
Politically Incorrect
 
ThePhantomPatriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Forest Hill, Murderland, USSA
Posts: 2,393
Images: 2
Revolt in NY-23

Today's special election is going on, everyone keep your eyes on it as this election might be a preview of what is to come in 2010!

Doug Hoffman is a Conservative who rose up from the TEA Party movement and is running as an Independent. He has been gaining more and more momentum and support from Republican voters and bypassed both the Republican and Democrat candidates.

Dede Scozzafava was the Republican candidate, but she was a RINO, in reality a bleeding heart liberal. She dropped out of the race and endorsed the Democrat.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...joe-biden.html

Hoffman is ahead in the polls, hopefully he gets in and sets the bar high for 2010. We might see a rise of a third party of conservative independents and/or liberty-minded republicans getting elected, how exciting!


__________________
"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government." -James Madison

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!" -Sam Adams

Campaign For Liberty - Harford County

Don't Drink The Kool-Aid!
ThePhantomPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:02 AM   #2
Huckleberry
Shootist
 
Huckleberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: AA County
Posts: 2,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhantomPatriot View Post
Today's special election is going on, everyone keep your eyes on it as this election might be a preview of what is to come in 2010!

Doug Hoffman is a Conservative who rose up from the TEA Party movement and is running as an Independent. He has been gaining more and more momentum and support from Republican voters and bypassed both the Republican and Democrat candidates.

Dede Scozzafava was the Republican candidate, but she was a RINO, in reality a bleeding heart liberal. She dropped out of the race and endorsed the Democrat.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...joe-biden.html

Hoffman is ahead in the polls, hopefully he gets in and sets the bar high for 2010. We might see a rise of a third party of conservative independents and/or liberty-minded republicans getting elected, how exciting!
Hoffman is running as a Conservative, which is a pol party in NY. He was pasted over by the D23 GOP bosses along with 6 others when they chose and backed Scuzzy. They tried to bribe him with a judgeship if he stayed out of the election next year but he refused and entered this year's race.

Nice thing about Scuzzy, she was endorsed by Newt Gringrich. Steele and the RNC did not endorse her but they didn't criticize the NY RSC either for their pick either.


__________________
"We're not gonna get rid of anybody! We're gonna stick together, just like it used to be! When you side with a man, you stay with him! And if you can't do that, you're like some animal, you're finished! We're finished! All of us!" Pike Bishop


NRA Life Member, NRA and former MD Handgun Instructor (Thanks MDSP)

Favorite Calibers 22; .22 WMR; 5.56; 9mm; 357 Mag; .45ACP; 45 Colt; 45/70; 7.62
Huckleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:07 AM   #3
gprimr1
MSI Exec & Frosh Watcher
 
gprimr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,001
Images: 4
I had been considering changing my affliation to Republican, but after the events in this race, I will probally not be doing it.

This race seems to make it clear the party does not want moderates. I suspect it may backfire in 2010.

That said, I still support gun rights.


__________________
"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"
Proud Democrat Proud Gun Owner
I'm a Democrat, Not a Socialist
MSI Executive Member
My Political Store
My Pictures
Frosh Watch
gprimr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:11 AM   #4
AKbythebay
Senior Member
 
AKbythebay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Maryland's Beautiful Eastern Shore
Posts: 3,703
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprimr1 View Post
I had been considering changing my affliation to Republican, but after the events in this race, I will probally not be doing it.

This race seems to make it clear the party does not want moderates. I suspect it may backfire in 2010.

That said, I still support gun rights.
Both parties have moved further and further from the center. That's sort of the problem with the primary system. Candidates need to run to the right or left during the primary and then run to the center during the general. It especially hurts here in MD where we are not only stuck with a solid Democrat majority but we are stuck with the most liberal hard left democrats that are capable of winning in the primary.

Although I am a conservative, I'm not a fan of the two party system by any stretch.


__________________
"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence...The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes; we need them every hour."

-- George Washington
AKbythebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:38 AM   #5
gprimr1
MSI Exec & Frosh Watcher
 
gprimr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,001
Images: 4
The primary system was a big thing that killed McCain too I think.

It was easy for Obama to backpeddle from the far left base and appear to please moderate voters.

McCain had to back peddle from pleasing the right base, and try to reach out to the moderates.

I think if McCain, who I consider a moderate, would have been able to run w/o pandering to the base, he could have beat Obama.

If Maryland does have a consitutional convention, I would like to see the primary opened up to Independents.


__________________
"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"
Proud Democrat Proud Gun Owner
I'm a Democrat, Not a Socialist
MSI Executive Member
My Political Store
My Pictures
Frosh Watch
gprimr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 11:57 AM   #6
Splitter
Senior Member
 
Splitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 5,697
McCain doomed himself because his message (and record) were unclear. Obama had "CHANGE!". Hell, no one knew what it meant, but it was easy to remember. McCain's lack of message was why he and Palin did not get along. It was still only a ten point win (soemthing around there, right?) and McCain's base did not turn out for him.

Republicans will win when they simplify their conservative message and stick to it. See Ronald Reagan for details.

Whether or not I agree with you, if you have a belief system and stick to it, I can respect you. If you can defend your belief system, I can respect you. If you try to please everyone and flip flop to do it, I have no respect. That's what McCain did and what Obama is doing.

Splitter


__________________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them." (John Wayne, the Shootist)

Be a gentleman. Be kind, courteous and respectful to everyone you meet, but
have a plan to kill them if it comes down to it. (The Men's Room, Rule 10)
Splitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 12:08 PM   #7
ThePhantomPatriot
Politically Incorrect
 
ThePhantomPatriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Forest Hill, Murderland, USSA
Posts: 2,393
Images: 2
I didn't support Obama or McCain, their principles were almost identical. Both were big government candidates. Even though Obama said that he'd bring the troops home I knew damn well he wouldn't, even in his inauguration speech he flip flopped on that issue.


__________________
"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government." -James Madison

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!" -Sam Adams

Campaign For Liberty - Harford County

Don't Drink The Kool-Aid!
ThePhantomPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:06 PM   #8
gprimr1
MSI Exec & Frosh Watcher
 
gprimr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,001
Images: 4
In all honesty, you can't bring the troops home. Gotta finnish what you start.


__________________
"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"
Proud Democrat Proud Gun Owner
I'm a Democrat, Not a Socialist
MSI Executive Member
My Political Store
My Pictures
Frosh Watch
gprimr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:14 PM   #9
joppaj
wheelgunner
 
joppaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Joppatown
Posts: 10,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitter View Post
Republicans will win when they simplify their conservative message and stick to it. See Ronald Reagan for details.
The problem is, define who's a Conservative? Social conservatives that run on the "God, guns and against gay rights"; fiscal conservatives that may be more socially moderate; small government/ State's Right's Conservatives; or the far radical right that can border on facism?

Reagen offered up his "big tent" theory and it worked for years. Bush claimed the middle, ran somewhat to the right and the media painted him as the extreme far right. The tea party movement seems to be largely a fiscally responsible, small government movement. The social conservatives will pay lip service to these ideas but are more interested in fighting the culture wars. Libertarians are doing some completly different things.

So, what conservative message are we rallying to?


__________________
Disclaimer- I am a police officer. This does not make me an armed lawyer. I am not authorized to make any official statement on behalf of my department or any other organization. All statements made are my own opinions and beliefs based upon my own morals, training and experience. Everyone cool with that?

"The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
—Proverbs 28:1
joppaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:15 PM   #10
ThePhantomPatriot
Politically Incorrect
 
ThePhantomPatriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Forest Hill, Murderland, USSA
Posts: 2,393
Images: 2
@ gp- I understand your argument, but what exactly are we over there for? What is the goal that must be reached?


__________________
"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government." -James Madison

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!" -Sam Adams

Campaign For Liberty - Harford County

Don't Drink The Kool-Aid!
ThePhantomPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:28 PM   #11
Splitter
Senior Member
 
Splitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 5,697
People will rally to the simple, idealogical message. That meesage makes the vast majority of people realize just how tradiionally conservative they are.

Reagns message was largely idealogical. He gave the 20K foot overview of the thought process behind conservatism. He then applied that ideaology to various issues.

People generally agreed with his ideaology even if they did not agree with the way he applied it to certain issues. And that right thar is a healthy debate. That's the debate "conservatives" need to be having. Instead, they have redeifned the ideaology to suit the issue.

As an example, when Reagan was elected, the left threw a fit because he was sure to overturn Roe v. Wade. He chose to fight that battle on ideaology but not legislatively. That pissed off the religious right, but they still believed in his ideaology and still backed him in general. Smart man.

His message stayed consistant:
Lower taxes
Smaller government
Strong national defense
Personal freedom and responsibility

It's DAMNED hard to argue against those things! That ideaology, and his ability to present it, shifted almost every debate into: how do we apply these things to issue X?

That's the winning recipe. Once everyone is on the same page in ideaology, any decision the legislature makes is likely to be a win for the ideaology.

Splitter


__________________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them." (John Wayne, the Shootist)

Be a gentleman. Be kind, courteous and respectful to everyone you meet, but
have a plan to kill them if it comes down to it. (The Men's Room, Rule 10)
Splitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:33 PM   #12
joppaj
wheelgunner
 
joppaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Joppatown
Posts: 10,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitter View Post
His message stayed consistant:
Lower taxes
Smaller government
Strong national defense
Personal freedom and responsibility
If someone were to run on that platform right now, I'll paint my house with thier campaign slogan.


__________________
Disclaimer- I am a police officer. This does not make me an armed lawyer. I am not authorized to make any official statement on behalf of my department or any other organization. All statements made are my own opinions and beliefs based upon my own morals, training and experience. Everyone cool with that?

"The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
—Proverbs 28:1
joppaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:33 PM   #13
alucard0822
For great Justice
 
alucard0822's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 7,368
Images: 11
For the most part you get your pick between 2 corrupt and authoritarian groups. There is probably a larger ideological spread within each party than between the two parties, and both have royally F-ed up the country for a very long time. I would say the majority of politicians slide left and right as it suits them, republicans have no problem supporting gun control, welfare, or abortion if it suits them, OTOH Many democrats have no problem supporting the opposite from time to time, and this dog and pony show goes on in the forefront while behind the scenes they steadily vote power away from a complacent populace, and into the hands of a growing autocracy. For most issues, I am conservative, for some, I am liberal, however for most I fall into that odd grouping as a libertarian. I do aprreciate the need for balance and vigorous debate from all sides before a law is passed or action taken, but we do not have that now, and haven't for a while. Basically when it comes to one issue or the other, both sides debate back and forth, however recently, the debate has escelated to be between government representing their own interests and the people representing theirs, not between representatives within government advocating for their respective constituents interest as it should be.


__________________
"Unfortunately, freedom allows sh*theads to get away with stuff. You always know the mark of a coward. A coward hides behind freedom. A brave person stands in front of freedom and defends it for others."
-Henry Rollins
alucard0822 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:42 PM   #14
Boondock Saint
MSI Executive Member
 
Boondock Saint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: White Marsh
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
Originally Posted by joppaj View Post
If someone were to run on that platform right now, I'll paint my house with thier campaign slogan.
And after I'm done helping you, perhaps you could come down and help paint my house as well.


__________________
Maryland Shall Issue - The Citizens Defense League of MD

http://www.marylandshallissue.org
Boondock Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:44 PM   #15
joppaj
wheelgunner
 
joppaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Joppatown
Posts: 10,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
And after I'm done helping you, perhaps you could come down and help paint my house as well.
We'll make stencils!


__________________
Disclaimer- I am a police officer. This does not make me an armed lawyer. I am not authorized to make any official statement on behalf of my department or any other organization. All statements made are my own opinions and beliefs based upon my own morals, training and experience. Everyone cool with that?

"The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
—Proverbs 28:1
joppaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 02:00 PM   #16
Splitter
Senior Member
 
Splitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 5,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard0822 View Post
For the most part you get your pick between 2 corrupt and authoritarian groups. There is probably a larger ideological spread within each party than between the two parties, and both have royally F-ed up the country for a very long time. I would say the majority of politicians slide left and right as it suits them, republicans have no problem supporting gun control, welfare, or abortion if it suits them, OTOH Many democrats have no problem supporting the opposite from time to time, and this dog and pony show goes on in the forefront while behind the scenes they steadily vote power away from a complacent populace, and into the hands of a growing autocracy. For most issues, I am conservative, for some, I am liberal, however for most I fall into that odd grouping as a libertarian. I do aprreciate the need for balance and vigorous debate from all sides before a law is passed or action taken, but we do not have that now, and haven't for a while. Basically when it comes to one issue or the other, both sides debate back and forth, however recently, the debate has escelated to be between government representing their own interests and the people representing theirs, not between representatives within government advocating for their respective constituents interest as it should be.
Yep! The lines are so blurry it's scary.

I didn't abandon the Republican party, it abandoned me.





Splitter


__________________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them." (John Wayne, the Shootist)

Be a gentleman. Be kind, courteous and respectful to everyone you meet, but
have a plan to kill them if it comes down to it. (The Men's Room, Rule 10)
Splitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 02:04 PM   #17
tdt91
I will miss you my friend
 
tdt91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Abingdon
Posts: 2,185
3rd parties can ruin it for conservative repubs. (Pero). we will see if that happens to the Jersey governors race


__________________
GET THE NET !!!
tdt91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:34 PM   #18
BRONZ
Member
 
BRONZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 108
I hope we win all three today. NY23, VA and NJ.


__________________
Bronz
BRONZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:34 PM   #19
Llyrin
Yankee-Rebel
 
Llyrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charles Co
Posts: 1,590
Here's what I would like to see:

1. Smaller government
2. Lower taxes
3. Broaden the tax base (we need more people with a dog in the fight)
4. With #3 above, we might be able to save social security. If not, kill it and let me keep the money for my own retirement.

No one will run on #3, nope, nada, none, never will. That's because the 48-49% who pay no taxes now will never vote for such a person. Yet, without it, we can't afford to lower taxes. Right now, there are just too many people with a -0- tax, or worse, tax credits that get them a return without paying into the system (or more returned than they paid).

I believe Social Security is a good thing and I don't mind paying into it IF I'M GOING TO GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT WHEN I RETURE, but without a broad tax base (75% or so), we can't sustain it. So, either fix it, or kill it (grandfather it out, I guess I'd say).


__________________
Llyrin
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
NRA Endowment Member
Collector of Curios & Relics
Member: Heritage Foundation

Think about it: I'm left-handed, so I'm in my right mind. The rest of you are governed by the left.

God only gave the Irish whiskey to prevent us from taking over the world.
Llyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2009, 03:59 PM   #20
gprimr1
MSI Exec & Frosh Watcher
 
gprimr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,001
Images: 4
NY23 is a drop in the water compared to NJ and VA.

I think the Holy Grail of today would be winning NJ. With it's strong govener system, a pro-gun candidate could do a lot to hack away at the gun laws.


__________________
"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"
Proud Democrat Proud Gun Owner
I'm a Democrat, Not a Socialist
MSI Executive Member
My Political Store
My Pictures
Frosh Watch
gprimr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Home Page > Forum List > Topics of Interest > Current Events


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2010, Maryland Shooters, LLC