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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:12 PM   #1
S6T6
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O'Malley's Crime bill

A friend forwarded this to me. It's dated March 30th.

O’Malley Gun Grab Passes House Committees:
On Friday evening two house committees, including the House Judiciary Committee of which I am a member passed Governor Martin O’Malley’s gun grab bill*Senate Bill 281*by a vote of 27-18.*Those of us who are proponents of the Second Amendment spent over eight hours offering amendments to the bill. Numerous amendments were accepted, including one I offered to protect ammunition used by waterfowl hunters. In addition amendments were accepted to bar the state police from disclosing the addresses of gun owners, to allow *a 18-year old in the military to purchase regulated firearms, and to remove registration requirements for those who inherit firearms. *The committee adopted amendments striking registration requirements for individuals who currently own so-called “assault” weapons. The committee also exempted current handgun owners from testing requirements when they buy future handguns.

*Unfortunately the main provisions on this anti-gun bill survived. Here’s what the bill still does:*Requires law-abiding citizens, prior to purchasing a handgun to be fingerprinted at state police headquarters, have a background check, take four hours of classroom instruction, pass an undefined test at a gun range, and obtain a gun license. Due to a lack of public ranges and instructors, for many this will be a de facto ban on buying handguns. Currently it’s taking over 60 days for individuals to obtain hand guns.Limits magazine bullet capacity for all guns to ten rounds.*Bans so-called “assault” weapons, which includes the nationally popular sports shooting rifle the AR-15. These weapons were tied to zero murders in Maryland last year.*Enables State Police to do ATF style investigations on gun stores. This was enacted despite opposition from gun store owners for the supposed purpose of preventing straw purchases. The State Police, Attorney General’s office, and the Governor’s office were never able to even answer the question of how many straw purchase prosecutions there were last year under the current Maryland law.

An amendment was also added yesterday to take peoples guns after a Probation Before Judgment (PBJ). Under Maryland law these are not considered convictions and I strongly oppose taking people’s rights and property away unless there is a conviction.*Finally, Democrats rejected all attempts to increase school security and to punish criminals who use guns in crimes. Unbelievably an amendment was defeated that would have allowed off-duty police officers to have their firearms on school grounds. I know if a shooter was at my one my kid’s school I would pray to God there was an armed police officer nearby. It should be noted that legislators rejected this amendment, while sitting in a state building that is protected by armed guards.*Another amendment that was narrowly defeated would have removed good time prison credits for those who use guns in the commission of violent crimes. Clearly the message is we only want to punish law-abiding citizens and not criminals.*This bill will head to the House floor next week for a final vote. Pro-Second Amendment activists have done an awesome job of attending bill hearings in Annapolis and contacting legislators. I urge you to continue to speak out against SB 281 for one more week.

Sincerely,
Delegate Michael HoughFrederick & Washington Counties**

This country going in the crapper with MD and CA leading the charge.
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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:20 PM   #2
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The PBJ thing is infuriating.

PBJ is not a conviction. It should not be treated as such.


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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:31 PM   #3
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An amendment was also added yesterday to take peoples guns after a Probation Before Judgment (PBJ). Under Maryland law these are not considered convictions and I strongly oppose taking people’s rights and property away unless there is a conviction.

That is absolute insanity that they would add this to the bill. I first heard this about a week ago from one of the talking heads, but I didn't think it would fly.
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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rick_Grimes View Post
An amendment was also added yesterday to take peoples guns after a Probation Before Judgment (PBJ). Under Maryland law these are not considered convictions and I strongly oppose taking people’s rights and property away unless there is a conviction.

That is absolute insanity that they would add this to the bill. I first heard this about a week ago from one of the talking heads, but I didn't think it would fly.
It didn't fly in the Senate, so that may be an issue if it survives the house and goes back over.
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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by squirrels View Post
The PBJ thing is infuriating.

PBJ is not a conviction. It should not be treated as such.
But it is treated as such for firearms purposes if this stands. If the judge determines the person is a threat, he should NOT give PBJ in the first place BUT as was argued in committee, if a violent offender is convicted instead of giving PBJ, they could loose access to public housing and other government benefits.

So we are subverting the principle of innocent until proven guily so that wards of the state get a free pass to continue to live at my (taxpayers) expense.

Give me a break. and BTW-after the PBJ is vacated and the offense expunged, the person can apply to have firearm rights restored BUT there was no mention as to what happens to the confiscated firearms at that time.
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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:51 PM   #6
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Keep it in let it stand let the Governor sign it.
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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:56 PM   #7
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I thought it was PBJ for violent crimes only?


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Old April 1st, 2013, 02:58 PM   #8
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So if I get a PBJ for speeding!??


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Old April 1st, 2013, 03:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by gprimr1 View Post
I thought it was PBJ for violent crimes only?
I can understand someone not being able to possess firearms while on supervised probation for the term of that probation. But the whole point of PBJ is to "keep your record clean", and only the courts themselves should be able to access that information. It shouldn't be relevant on a firearms background check, and a non-conviction should not be considered "due process" to abrogation of someone's Constitutional rights.

Maryland defines "Assault" as touching someone without their consent. I have seen people charged with second-degree assault for something silly like spitting on someone. This is one of those situations where ANYONE could find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

PBJ is designed to give those people the benefit of the doubt, on the assumption that it could have been a simple misunderstanding. I know it is abused in a lot of cases by plea bargains and other such situations. But there are also a lot of cases where it is used properly, and in those cases, people don't deserve to have their Constitutional rights taken away.

It's already somewhat upsetting that anyone can find your PBJ record via Maryland Judiciary Case Search. That is supposed to be between you and the court. It's not a conviction. Yet any employer who finds it on your record would treat it as such, which is a gross violation of the principle behind the concept.

The REAL unfortunate thing is that PBJ is looked at with such a negative light precisely because it is abused in situations where a conviction SHOULD be handed out, to the point where to a casual observer, a PBJ is as good as a conviction.


Everyone is a law-abiding citizen until they're not. This is REALLY a slippery slope. Courts look at PBJ like it's "no big deal", so they hand them out like candy. But it IS a big deal if it results in people's rights being abrogated. I find it ironic that people pitch such a fit over the firearms disqualification inherent in protective/peace orders and that anyone can swear one out, but they don't have a problem with disqualification for PBJ when courts throw them around so willy-nilly.

In other words, if you consent to allow PBJs to disqualify one from gun ownership, you are affirming the State's belief that gun ownership is "not important" and "no big deal". Be careful.


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Old April 1st, 2013, 03:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gmkoh View Post
But it is treated as such for firearms purposes if this stands. If the judge determines the person is a threat, he should NOT give PBJ in the first place BUT as was argued in committee, if a violent offender is convicted instead of giving PBJ, they could loose access to public housing and other government benefits.
The whole POINT behind the laws that say convicted violent offenders are ineligible for those benefits is to deter them from committing violent offenses. If they are worried about convicted violent offenders losing those benefits, then they should change the law to not disqualify them, not dodge convictions.

The PBJ system is there to give good people who f'd up once a second chance. Anything else is abuse.

Quote:
after the PBJ is vacated and the offense expunged, the person can apply to have firearm rights restored
Yeah...good luck with that.


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Old April 1st, 2013, 04:23 PM   #11
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Burden of Proof

I sat there for 9 hours on Friday the 26th and listened to party line vote, after party line vote, after party line vote.

It finally hit me that they should have called SB 281 the “we don’t want honest, working people to own guns” bill. No mention of violent criminal control. No mention of crazy and dangerous control. Just in your face, we don't want you to own guns control.

That one recount really got me going, but the last straw was when they pissed on the one armed Afghan Veteran who would be restricted from using a standard 17 round magazine in his Glock 17. Mr. Smigiel, Mr. Hough, and Mr. Cluster need to be applauded for their work. There were others, but I cannot recall, much less spell, their names.

I want to know if all Maryland cops will be required to obtain PhD’s when this becomes the law of the land. They will need a degree to keep up with what’s in this anti-gun legislation. After it’s implemented, who will shoulder the burden of proof? Is it up to the gun owner or the police? How do we prove the firearms we are bringing back from the range, after being stopped for a busted tail light, are pre 281 or post 281?

Is the gun owner going to receive a wallet card from the State listing our black, "may or may not be an assault weapon" weapons? Will the card have the names of the restricted weapons? The serial numbers of the weapons? Our name and address where the weapons are located?

If so, I’d hate to be the guy who had the misfortune to lose his wallet. It would give new meaning to a bump in the night. Don’t worry Not-So-Mary-Landers. Maybe it’s just three horny crackheads returning your wallet at 2 in the morning. Just make sure that you and yours obey Maryland law and "retreat" from room to room as they try to give it to your wife, girlfriend, or daughter.

I hope someone high up on the food chain is reading this. Are you awake? Are you listening? You are putting us in danger. Grow a pair and Kill this Bill.

Scott
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Old April 1st, 2013, 04:41 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by iH8DemLibz View Post
I sat there for 9 hours on Friday the 26th and listened to party line vote, after party line vote, after party line vote.

It finally hit me that they should have called SB 281 the “we don’t want honest, working people to own guns” bill. No mention of violent criminal control. No mention of crazy and dangerous control. Just in your face, we don't want you to own guns control.

That one recount really got me going, but the last straw was when they pissed on the one armed Afghan Veteran who would be restricted from using a standard 17 round magazine in his Glock 17. Mr. Smigiel, Mr. Hough, and Mr. Cluster need to be applauded for their work. There were others, but I cannot recall, much less spell, their names.

I want to know if all Maryland cops will be required to obtain PhD’s when this becomes the law of the land. They will need a degree to keep up with what’s in this anti-gun legislation. After it’s implemented, who will shoulder the burden of proof? Is it up to the gun owner or the police? How do we prove the firearms we are bringing back from the range, after being stopped for a busted tail light, are pre 281 or post 281?

Is the gun owner going to receive a wallet card from the State listing our black, "may or may not be an assault weapon" weapons? Will the card have the names of the restricted weapons? The serial numbers of the weapons? Our name and address where the weapons are located?

If so, I’d hate to be the guy who had the misfortune to lose his wallet. It would give new meaning to a bump in the night. Don’t worry Not-So-Mary-Landers. Maybe it’s just three horny crackheads returning your wallet at 2 in the morning. Just make sure that you and yours obey Maryland law and "retreat" from room to room as they try to give it to your wife, girlfriend, or daughter.

I hope someone high up on the food chain is reading this. Are you awake? Are you listening? You are putting us in danger. Grow a pair and Kill this Bill.

Scott
Hey, Scott, welcome to the ranks of the flabbergasted!


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Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:17 PM   #13
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Hello all and thank you for the warm Maryland Shooters welcome aboard.

Just got home after watching the circus once again. I must admit that I was not at all surprised by the partizan bickering and blatent political posturing.

Being new this this forum, I read the rules very carefully. I know racism is not to be raised. So I won't do that. That's why we have Delegates.

The Good Gentleman from Baltimore City took it upon himself to make race and racism a part of this political conversation. He said us "not-like-him" people should not carry guns because there are a lot of Trayvon Martins in the state of Maryland. That's his selling point? Telling us there a lot of thugs in Maryland. I'm perplexed. He's worried about the thugs more than the honest gun owners who simply want to protect themselves? Really?

I guess I can see his point. He will need all the Trayvons to show up at the poles come the 2014 election.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:18 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by S6T6 View Post
The committee adopted amendments striking registration requirements for individuals who currently own so-called “assault” weapons.
Sorry I don't mean to hijack the thread...I'm still learning all the stupid gun laws this state has. The statement you made (quoted in bold)...does that mean if we have guns that pass the "evil feature's" test, and own before Oct, 1st, then we don't have to register them? If I understand correctly, the test for rifles has been narrowed down to: A folding stock, A grenade or flare launcher, or a flash hider. I own 3 rifles: Hi-point 9mm carbine, Ruger 10/22 (With Archangel G36 kit) , and a GSG mp5 (22lr). Would the feature test even apply to the .22lr's? Thanks if anybody can answer this.


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Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:39 AM   #15
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Semiautomatic is the litmus test. Then evil features.


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Old April 3rd, 2013, 11:25 AM   #16
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Semiautomatic is the litmus test. Then evil features.
If this is in reply to me, than I'm still confused. All three are semi auto, so then I go onto the feature test...None have a flash hider, and none have a grenade or flare launcher. I pass the feature test because you need 2 of the 3 features to fail. So under the current bill, would I have to register?


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Old April 3rd, 2013, 10:27 PM   #17
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Why would you register either way?


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Old April 4th, 2013, 02:30 AM   #18
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Why would you register either way?
Because our overlords say so... Duh! /end sarcasm
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