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Old March 30th, 2012, 09:59 AM   #21
erwos
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*shrugs* It's not blasphemy, more just a commentary on how mass-produced the AR-15 is at this point. The only way you're going to get a known reliable AK at $600 is to convert a Saiga yourself. Saiga conversion is not rocket science (especially if you go with the 5.45 - no bullet guide!), but it also may not look all that great in the end.
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Old March 30th, 2012, 10:55 AM   #22
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*shrugs* It's not blasphemy, more just a commentary on how mass-produced the AR-15 is at this point. The only way you're going to get a known reliable AK at $600 is to convert a Saiga yourself. Saiga conversion is not rocket science (especially if you go with the 5.45 - no bullet guide!), but it also may not look all that great in the end.
True, i've handled alot of junk WASR's . And I also agree that a Saiga conversion produces a piece of heaven. Best thing I've ever done. About $650 after all is said and done, and it is a gem. All thanks to Nemesis. he started the thread about the sale on 5.45 Saigas at centerfire systems that convinced me to buy one and he did the pistol grip conversion for me lol.


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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #23
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Let's not turn this into an AK vs AR argument which this thread is on the verge of. The two rifles are very different and not comparable.

OP, I think a WASR would be a better value over one of the century built rifles. The new ones are supposed to be improved and they are made in a place that has been doing it for a long time. Just the chrome lined HF barrel makes it worth the few extra bucks in most cases.

Example- the century ak's with non chrome barrels are going for 499
http://centerfiresystems.com/akagun-47cw.aspx

and the wasr with chrome lined HF is going for 479!
http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN20.aspx

as a comparison in the AR world you are looking at $80 more for HF from BCM

Not to mention chrome bores are easy to clean and you can run corrosive ammo with less worry
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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:35 AM   #24
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Let's not turn this into an AK vs AR argument which this thread is on the verge of. The two rifles are very different and not comparable.

OP, I think a WASR would be a better value over one of the century built rifles. The new ones are supposed to be improved and they are made in a place that has been doing it for a long time. Just the chrome lined HF barrel makes it worth the few extra bucks in most cases.

Example- the century ak's with non chrome barrels are going for 499
http://centerfiresystems.com/akagun-47cw.aspx

and the wasr with chrome lined HF is going for 479!
http://centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN20.aspx

as a comparison in the AR world you are looking at $80 more for HF from BCM

Not to mention chrome bores are easy to clean and you can run corrosive ammo with less worry


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Old March 30th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #25
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Well guys you have given me a wealth of info! Lots of opinions too, I agree with alot of what you have said and I did buy it and I found out that the barrel is chrome lined and the only tapco parts are the mag and the G2 trigger. The front RIS kit that replaced the wood fore grips is a Utg part. I am also into mil sim Airsoft and I know the brand. Yes not some over priced hunk of metal but it's on the rifle solid and looks good No complaints! The rifle shoots great and I clean it every time! From all the research I have done looks like I got lucky and got a good rifle!

I wanted a AK for a while and I know AR's well, even if SHTF happens I'm sure my AKMS will get me far enough to find a nice shiny AR or M4 laying around! Lol


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Old March 31st, 2012, 01:55 PM   #26
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The only guy in this thread who's making SHTF a required use case is you, Scott. OP didn't even mention it. He asked if a CAI AKMS was a good value. (The answer being, if you're willing to keep returning it until you get a good one, sure! If not, not so much!)

I'm still not convinced that HF is a true requirement for a barrel. Real AKs are select-fire, and those introduce different stresses on a gun than an SA version. I do tend to agree with you in that I'd think much more highly of HF as a requirement on an FA gun. But, let's face it: there's an exellent chance the world won't end (ever), and there's also an exellent chance that 99.9% of these AKs will never fire enough rounds to come even close to shooting out their barrels. As I said before, HF is nice to have, but tossing it in the realm of must-have requirement seems extreme. I'd rather have a high-quality AK without an HF barrel than a low-quality one with it.

Anyways, those new WASRs/M10s still have serious issues with QC, and it's not necessarily a problem on the US side. Consider that even the 100%-Romanian PSLs are still rather hit and miss. Hell, SGN had an article this past issue on building one, and the Romanian-built receiver was stated to be way out-of-spec.

And it's funny that you bring up the Zastava PAP, because I don't believe that's HF or chrome-lined.

To summarize: if you have $600 to spend on a rifle, buy an AR. The lower-end of those is way, way better than the lower end of AKs.
I never said SHTF was a a requirement. I stated again if you just want a rifle to plink with etc. then it will be fine. I said if the OP was looking for SHTF as a requirement he should look somewhere else. I'm still convinced that CAI guns are not a good value especially with all the crap they put out and shady business dealings (remember the tantal fiasco using American barrels; their "one year warranty" that starts when it leaves the factory not when it is in your possession). Do you really want to deal with a company like that and think they are a good value?? Really??? If anything I told the op to get a cheaper rifle with a better value and way better quality with the added benefit of a factory barrel. Ill agree Romanian factory stuff is not 100% guaranteed (ceaucescu is responsible for that killing off skilled people in the 80's with invaluable expertise which the Romanians have never been able to fully recover from) but I'd still take them over any thing century puts out. Romanian quality is still way above century.

SHTF may never happen. But our future isn't looking any brighter from my perspective. I believe in having it and not needing it than needing it and not having it. I stand by my convictions.

Zastava PAP's are hammer forged but not chrome lined. Then again I'd trust a Serbian factory barrel over any U.S. domestic barrel especially since there have been many issues with them. A lot of them probably work well but not enough at this point to state they are the equal of the factory equivalent.
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Old March 31st, 2012, 01:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by raff696 View Post
Well guys you have given me a wealth of info! Lots of opinions too, I agree with alot of what you have said and I did buy it and I found out that the barrel is chrome lined and the only tapco parts are the mag and the G2 trigger. The front RIS kit that replaced the wood fore grips is a Utg part. I am also into mil sim Airsoft and I know the brand. Yes not some over priced hunk of metal but it's on the rifle solid and looks good No complaints! The rifle shoots great and I clean it every time! From all the research I have done looks like I got lucky and got a good rifle!

I wanted a AK for a while and I know AR's well, even if SHTF happens I'm sure my AKMS will get me far enough to find a nice shiny AR or M4 laying around! Lol


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Old March 31st, 2012, 02:58 PM   #28
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I'd have to disagree with that. I've got numerous Tapco magazines, and they are decent quality. I've never had any issue with any of them. Now they are not quite up to milsurp quality, but for their price point; they return a good value IMO. They cerainly aren't the "junk" some people make them out to be.
drop one and watch it explode lol
OP if it came with a tapco mag you will need to change out some parts to make it complaint to use surplus mags
I shoot my Mak-90 against one of my friends AKM's built by century the heating of the barrel bubbled the paint after a day of shooting lol. I am now looking for a Mak or Maddi for him. He sold the AKM to another guy that just wanted a akm
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Old March 31st, 2012, 04:02 PM   #29
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drop one and watch it explode lol
I've dropped them before, fully loaded, on concrete, at the Marriottsville Barnes range; nothing more than a scuff. As I said, they're not as durable as steel surplus, but for the price point, they're not bad. Certainly not junk. I only have 4 for 7.62x39, 4 for 5.45x39, 4 for the Galil, so I don't have a large base of data points to draw from. But I'm just saying that I've never had an issue with them, and they seem to be reasonable quality.

(In the spirit of full disclosure, I should admit that I only have the 12 Tapcos, but have over 100 steel/polymer surplus mags for the AKs/Galil. So you can see where my preferences line )


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Old March 31st, 2012, 04:05 PM   #30
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I've dropped them before, fully loaded, on concrete, at the Marriottsville Barnes range; nothing more than a scuff. As I said, they're not as durable as steel surplus, but for the price point, they're not bad. Certainly not junk. I only have 4 for 7.62x39, 4 for 5.45x39, 4 for the Galil, so I don't have a large base of data points to draw from. But I'm just saying that I've never had an issue with them, and they seem to be reasonable quality.

(In the spirit of full disclosure, I should admit that I only have the 12 Tapcos, but have over 100 steel/polymer surplus mags for the AKs/Galil. So you can see where my preferences line )
I have always used surplus mags I was running drills with a friend he droped his tapco on a rock it was like 52 card pick up lol
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Old March 31st, 2012, 06:38 PM   #31
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I have always used surplus mags I was running drills with a friend he droped his tapco on a rock it was like 52 card pick up lol
What busted on it? The floorplate? And was it an older mag? All the ones I've gotten in the past few years have been GTG. I do have a few Promags that I bought way-back-when, and didn't know any better; now those ARE cheap. Still never have had an issue with them (the few times I've used them, lol), but they are decidedly cheaper than anything else I have.


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Old March 31st, 2012, 06:46 PM   #32
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What busted on it? The floorplate? And was it an older mag? All the ones I've gotten in the past few years have been GTG. I do have a few Promags that I bought way-back-when, and didn't know any better; now those ARE cheap. Still never have had an issue with them (the few times I've used them, lol), but they are decidedly cheaper than anything else I have.
like it split on the side and the pressure like sent all the rounds out
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:46 PM   #33
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Scott, thanks for sharing the informative post on on the barrel making processes. I enjoyed reading it.


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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:26 PM   #34
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have you guys seen the ATI imported milled ak's they are trying to pass off as Bulgarian?
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:28 PM   #35
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have you guys seen the ATI imported milled ak's they are trying to pass off as Bulgarian?
IIRC those ATI milled AK's are built on Polish kits. I have the CAI version and its a solid rifle. can't speak for the ATI AK


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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:40 PM   #36
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Scott is spot on about everything he is saying, wether it be Manufacturers/Importers, Barrels, Mags, Etc.........

If you want to avoid problems listen to him, if you enjoy rolling the dice or just buy cheap substandard stuff, well theres no convincing some people.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 03:24 PM   #37
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Heres mine i just got finished with it just waiting on tri-rail top cover





Last edited by RW2111; April 2nd, 2012 at 04:25 PM.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 05:57 PM   #38
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Scott is spot on about everything he is saying, wether it be Manufacturers/Importers, Barrels, Mags, Etc.........

If you want to avoid problems listen to him, if you enjoy rolling the dice or just buy cheap substandard stuff, well theres no convincing some people.
Thanks friend , I learned from the best
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