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DrunkUncles
June 27th, 2012, 07:29 PM
If you could only buy one rifle right now and you had a choice between and AR10 (.308) or a 300 Blackout.... Which would you choose and why?

Ski169
June 27th, 2012, 07:36 PM
Good question. I am actually looking for a 300 upper but the 308 AR rifles are nice. It's tough, but I would go with 300 due to the fact that swapping the upper can give you a whole new rifle. Won't work on a 308 AR unless you have the new colt. 901 I think? Having the 300 would also be useful for all the reloaders that have 5.56 they can use for the 300. At least after 5.56 is used, it can be converted and then used through essentially the same rifle. But this doesn't mean that I have anything against 308 AR type rifles other than the fact that I don't have the money for one.

navycrna
June 27th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Both:D

BradMacc82
June 27th, 2012, 07:41 PM
Blackout.

Reasoning behind my answer -

Lighter weight than AR10, but still has respectable range/power.
Uses standard AR components - aside from barrel.
I reload, so I have plenty of used 5.56 brass to convert to 300.
Meets hunting requirements with sonic ammo, don't know about subsonics though.
Pop 2 pins, can switch back to .223/5.56 if needed.
Cost - much cheaper to buy/retrofit a upper for 300 duty, compared to buying/building a AR10, at least from the prices I've seen for AR10's.

Ski169
June 27th, 2012, 07:43 PM
Blackout.

Reasoning behind my answer -

Lighter weight than AR10, but still has respectable range/power.
Uses standard AR components - aside from barrel.
I reload, so I have plenty of used 5.56 brass to convert to 300.
Meets hunting requirements with sonic ammo, don't know about subsonics though.
Pop 2 pins, can switch back to .223/5.56 if needed.
Cost - much cheaper to buy/retrofit a upper for 300 duty, compared to buying/building a AR10, at least from the prices I've seen for AR10's.

:thumbsup: A couple more good points I failed to mention.

BradMacc82
June 27th, 2012, 07:47 PM
The other thing with AR10's, not everyone's components seem to be compatible with other maker's parts. That is what I see as the biggest drawback currently.

Redneck
June 27th, 2012, 07:49 PM
Whats the purpose of the rifle?

I have both :)

Bootknife
June 27th, 2012, 07:50 PM
Just bought a DD Upper From 2A (Thanks Mark) and it is sweet on My Best Lower!

annihilation-time
June 27th, 2012, 07:51 PM
AR-10

lx1x
June 27th, 2012, 07:52 PM
Whats the purpose of the rifle?

I have both :)

this^

if you thinking of long range.. ar10

more power for shorter distance blackout. from what i've seen.. blackout doesnt have the accuracy yet.. but then again.. been wrong before.

DrunkUncles
June 27th, 2012, 08:05 PM
Whats the purpose of the rifle?

I have both :)

Definitely hog hunting, but it would be great if that 300 has enough stopping power to knock down a deer or two at my uncle's farm in VA.

I have a bolt .308 so not buying an additional cartridge type is a bonus (and .308 rounds are not cheep), but I also love the interchangeability of the 300. I think I'm really leaning toward the 300.

I guess I was hoping someone could talk me out of it.

I really do wish I had the cash for both, but I've got to make a choice.

Redneck
June 27th, 2012, 08:23 PM
.300 blk will kill hogs, just ask Dan. I'm using mine right now mainly for deer hunting. My .308 AR is getting a little heavy so I went with something lighter.

Honestly if hunting is what you are thinking you have a tough choice. IMO there isn't a wrong choice. .308 might have the upper hand because of power and distance, but that's it. If you are woods hunting .300blk is great. If its open range/swamp and you can get 200+ yard shots you may want to go .308. Will you be hunting in a climber, box stand, or the ground. My .308 is to heavy to hunt out of my climber that's another reason I picked up a .300blk. On the swamp I use .308 in the woods in .300blk.

ibang1
June 27th, 2012, 08:25 PM
Definitely hog hunting, but it would be great if that 300 has enough stopping power to knock down a deer or two at my uncle's farm in VA.

I have a bolt .308 so not buying an additional cartridge type is a bonus (and .308 rounds are not cheep), but I also love the interchangeability of the 300. I think I'm really leaning toward the 300.

I guess I was hoping someone could talk me out of it.

I really do wish I had the cash for both, but I've got to make a choice.

How far out would you need to be to knock down a deer?

My next build is a blackout. I'm get some parts together now but having trouble finding a good barrel.

DrunkUncles
June 27th, 2012, 08:33 PM
How far out would you need to be to knock down a deer?

My next build is a blackout. I'm get some parts together now but having trouble finding a good barrel.

Usually 200 to 300yrds (MAX)... He gets mad at me cause I won't shoot at anything farther away. But living in the Peoples Repub of MD, its tough to get enough trigger time to be comfortable at any greater distance.

Biggfoot44
June 27th, 2012, 08:34 PM
Not that I haven't had a Whisper in the back of mind since JD Jones invented it , but the answer is none of the above.

6.5 Grendel AR-15 platform , decent power , long range capbility.

Redneck
June 27th, 2012, 08:35 PM
Usually 200 to 300yrds (MAX)... He gets mad at me cause I won't shoot at anything farther away. But living in the Peoples Repub of MD, its tough to get enough trigger time to be comfortable at any greater distance.

If its 200-300 I would say .308. Energy of the .300blk out that far really drops.

Neot
June 27th, 2012, 08:37 PM
AR 10. The only conflicting issue is magazines between Armalite and the SR 25 style. Armalite has remedied this by making a new model that will work with the SR 25 style magazine.

Wojo
June 27th, 2012, 08:38 PM
The other thing with AR10's, not everyone's components seem to be compatible with other maker's parts. That is what I see as the biggest drawback currently.

+1 on this... I have a dpms lr 308 (in .308)and and armalite AR 10 and most stuff is not interchangeable all the way down to even the pmags.

Wojo
June 27th, 2012, 08:45 PM
AR 10. The only conflicting issue is magazines between Armalite and the SR 25 style. Armalite has remedied this by making a new model that will work with the SR 25 style magazine.

Agreed! We were posting at the same time. I know some will say that the DPMS lr 308 is not truely an AR 10 anyway, but also be careful with matching some AR 10 stuff with the lr 308. Found out the hard way that dpms has 2 styles of upper receivers (high and low) that the rails don't match up to AR 10 4 rail configured free float systems.

Redneck
June 27th, 2012, 08:47 PM
For the record I have had no issue finding anything for my DPMS AP4 .308

BerBer5985
June 27th, 2012, 08:55 PM
Do they make any other conversion uppers in other calibers that only require an upper swap or is 300 blk the only one without buying a brand new gun

Wojo
June 27th, 2012, 08:58 PM
I have not had issues finding parts for the dpms either, just a few parts are not standard AR 10. I dont remember (could just go look) but doesnt the armalite ar 10 lower use the standard size ar-15 pins and the lr 308 the "big pin" setup?

Redneck
June 27th, 2012, 08:59 PM
Do they make any other conversion uppers in other calibers that only require an upper swap or is 300 blk the only one without buying a brand new gun

Any AR15 upper can go on any AR15 lower. Multiple calibers available.

DrunkUncles
June 27th, 2012, 09:01 PM
Do they make any other conversion uppers in other calibers that only require an upper swap or is 300 blk the only one without buying a brand new gun

Fits on my lower and I don't have to buy additional mags.

Russ D
June 27th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Both, but I would buy the Blackout first.

Wojo
June 27th, 2012, 09:11 PM
Ever thought about shooting suppressed? If so i would def go with the 300 whisper... I watched a guy shoot one in VA with subsonic ammo and that thing was just as quiet as some rimfire suppressed they were shooting there too.

Redneck
June 27th, 2012, 09:18 PM
Ever thought about shooting suppressed? If so i would def go with the 300 whisper... I watched a guy shoot one in VA with subsonic ammo and that thing was just as quiet as some rimfire suppressed they were shooting there too.

Thats another reason why I bought one. Its a great caliber to suppress :thumbsup:

Jimbob2.0
June 27th, 2012, 09:21 PM
Id probably go 300 if doing it again, frankly I find myself rarely if ever shooting my 7.62*51 AR, its a nice gun and all but just nothing special. I may replace the AP4 upper with a 24inch barrel to make a quasi sniper gun.

Wojo
June 27th, 2012, 09:29 PM
Damn this thread! Has me thinking about building a 300 AR. The suppressed possibilities has me intrigued... How about i just sell u my dpms ar 10 to fund a 300 build for myself!:innocent0

Bootknife
June 27th, 2012, 09:32 PM
I bought the DD .300 to have a Flexible kit.I already have an early M1A and a 700 Rem 5R platform in .308.Just my 2Cents!

Af_catfish
June 28th, 2012, 01:18 AM
The .308 is one of my favorite cartridges. It gives you the power to reach out and touch something if you have to while still being great for in close. I would go with the AR10 for alot of the same reasons I like the AR15. You could build a long range precision upper for times you need to drive tacks and also have a lightweight upper if you're going to be carrying it around. I'd even like to someday build a SBR AR10. It would be amazing. AR10s aren't as heavy as people make them out to be. It's not like they're made out of cast iron. It's like an AR15 that's been sized up about half again. For suppressed you can get subsonic rounds, for plinking there are deals to be found that cost less than .300 BLK, and there are match rounds that are as precise as factory ammo can be. The downside is the cost. They are expensive, but most awesome things are.

The .300 BLK is a good idea. It uses the modularity of the AR15 to bring .30 cal to the platform. The downside is what happens when you shoehorn the .30 cal bullet into a 5.56/.223 case. Less bullet weight and less powder capacity. The cartridge is great for suppressed and CQB. But for me the jack of all trades .308 is a better choice for real world applications.

Indiana Jones
June 28th, 2012, 02:05 AM
Hands down .308. I know for a certainty that I can find the ammo tomorrow, and in weeks, and months. Its more powerful, and more accurate past throwing distance. Tried and true.

Auckland
June 28th, 2012, 03:21 AM
Good question. I am actually looking for a 300 upper
Gun Connection had 2 as of last Thursday. Give Dan a call.

Biggfoot44
June 28th, 2012, 06:09 AM
Yes, there are multiple cals that will interchange w/ upper swap and possably new bolt. Most currently popular/ available are 6.5 Grendel , 6.8SPC , .300Whisper/ Blk/ Wilson . A few yrs ago Olymic put minor effort behind 6x45 (also a good ctg ). Near infinite number of Wildcats and proprietary ctgs also.

Yoshi
June 28th, 2012, 06:39 AM
Love the .308. Go with a bull-pup config and you'll have a beat-down stick you can use up close and at distance.

tomgreco
June 28th, 2012, 06:39 AM
300 BLK subsonic is about 115db when suppressed. Ammo prices are starting to come down as well.

HardHatMan
June 28th, 2012, 06:49 AM
AR10, only because I don't reload. If 300BLK becomes more mainstream, and more companies start making ammo, I might build one.

huesmann
June 28th, 2012, 09:41 AM
Question: is there any difference in the legality/paperwork required for an AR-10 (308) vs. an AR-15 (300BLK)?

BerBer5985
June 28th, 2012, 10:57 AM
This thread has got me looking into maybe a convert upper maybe. I might start a new thread to find out more. I'm fairly new to ARs so all this is new to me. Are there any conversions that will legally take deer out? I love the way my ar handles more than my other rifles other than my lever actions and an AR that I can hunt with would be amazing.

Biggfoot44
June 28th, 2012, 11:27 AM
In Md .223 is legal for deer , but its usage is controversial even where legal.Not legal in VA , Pa , WV .

While people can make a sport out of debating which is *better* just about any of the AR rifle cals of at least .25 will kill deer , within their individual range limitations.

mayor_quimby
June 28th, 2012, 11:50 AM
Im waiting on AAC for my .300 barrel only reason it comes into play for me is because I already have an AR-15 and a ton of parts laying around so all I needed was the barrel. Also I reload so its not a big deal to me I have a good amount of .223 brass all I need is the .308 bulllets. Only down side is trimming the .223 case down .

But comparing an AR-10 to a .330 blackout is sort of like comparing two different types of apples. So my 2 cents would be figure out the application of use.

BerBer5985
June 28th, 2012, 12:27 PM
In Md .223 is legal for deer , but its usage is controversial even where legal.Not legal in VA , Pa , WV .

While people can make a sport out of debating which is *better* just about any of the AR rifle cals of at least .25 will kill deer , within their individual range limitations.

Ok maybe not legally but ethically. I'd feel better with something in the .30 cal range or larger. How about hog hunting? I have family in Louisiana and I'd love to go hog hunting down there. Lifetime supply of bacon sounds great! ;)

mayor_quimby
June 28th, 2012, 12:35 PM
Ok maybe not legally but ethically. I'd feel better with something in the .30 cal range or larger. How about hog hunting? I have family in Louisiana and I'd love to go hog hunting down there. Lifetime supply of bacon sounds great! ;)

.223 works fine for hog hunting, shot placement is key

BenL
June 28th, 2012, 06:17 PM
I'm about 15 weeks and waiting for a 300 blackout barrel from noveski.

Wojo
June 28th, 2012, 08:12 PM
Has anyone looked at the 300 blackout complete setups from s&w or dpms? I have seen the DD blackout but not those 2 other manufacturers. I am sure they are on the lower range of the price scale compared to DD.

DrunkUncles
June 28th, 2012, 08:31 PM
Has anyone looked at the 300 blackout complete setups from s&w or dpms? I have seen the DD blackout but not those 2 other manufacturers. I am sure they are on the lower range of the price scale compared to DD.

Nah, I haven't seen those manufactures completes either... I'm looking at a DD.

Wojo
June 28th, 2012, 08:36 PM
Have u made ur decision? Going with the DD 300?

DrunkUncles
June 28th, 2012, 08:57 PM
Have u made ur decision? Going with the DD 300?

Yup... DD 300... The .308 will have to wait!!!

Wojo
June 28th, 2012, 09:16 PM
Sweet good luck with it. Any idea on a wait time for it or do you have one lined up?

HardHatMan
June 28th, 2012, 09:19 PM
Question: is there any difference in the legality/paperwork required for an AR-10 (308) vs. an AR-15 (300BLK)?

That's a good question. I know AR10's are cash and carry. I'm curious as to what a 300BLK would be.

Wojo
June 28th, 2012, 09:30 PM
I was talking about a wait time as far as locating a DD or waiting on the manufacturer. I think the 7day wait would apply to most of the Ar 10s and 300 blackouts... The caliber should not matter as much as the config (heavy barrel, length, etc)

Wojo
June 28th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Neither of my 308 ARs were cash and carry...

Minuteman
June 29th, 2012, 02:33 AM
Neither of my 308 ARs were cash and carry...

300blkout!

It's:
cash and carry
Every part is AR15, except the barrel and bullets
Same capacity and mags as any AR15
SAAMI certified
Able to convert 5.56 ammo if you reload
Less expensive than alternatives
Less recoil than .308
Makes a better suppressed gun than .308

annihilation-time
June 29th, 2012, 06:31 AM
The AR-10 and other 308 AR style rifles are cash and carry. They are not on the AW list. If you don't believe it, take a look. AR-15 rifles are regulated; other designs are not.

dilligaf
June 29th, 2012, 06:38 AM
300blkout!

It's:
cash and carry
Every part is AR15, except the barrel and bullets
Same capacity and mags as any AR15
SAAMI certified
Able to convert 5.56 ammo if you reload
Less expensive than alternatives
Less recoil than .308
Makes a better suppressed gun than .308

300 BLK ! Good review here http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=58402

Yoshi
June 29th, 2012, 06:52 AM
Has anyone looked at the 300 blackout complete setups from s&w or dpms? I have seen the DD blackout but not those 2 other manufacturers. I am sure they are on the lower range of the price scale compared to DD.

I talked to AAC... DS-ARMS is apparently their choice for an inexpensive, yet decent, build.

BradMacc82
June 29th, 2012, 07:59 AM
I talked to AAC... DS-ARMS is apparently their choice for an inexpensive, yet decent, build.

DS Arms wasn't too bad, got to shoot one at my range a few months back, accuracy wasn't pin-point, but that was with hunting handloads and a scope that wasn't fine-zeroed, I was still maintaining a 2 to 2.5 inch spread.

NHaze
June 29th, 2012, 08:11 AM
Ok maybe not legally but ethically. I'd feel better with something in the .30 cal range or larger. How about hog hunting? I have family in Louisiana and I'd love to go hog hunting down there. Lifetime supply of bacon sounds great! ;)

.458 Socom, .50 Beowulf, 6.5 Grendel will also work

Wojo
June 29th, 2012, 09:39 AM
The AR-10 and other 308 AR style rifles are cash and carry. They are not on the AW list. If you don't believe it, take a look. AR-15 rifles are regulated; other designs are not.

I don't doubt it but i know that i have had to do all the regulated paperwork for mine and wait a week. Add it to the list of firearms laws that i do not fully understand. Lay a dpms oracle in 5.56 next to an oracle in 308 and tell me why one should be treated any differently that the other.

If i were to buy another i may press the issue with the ffl but it is not that consequential to me.

BradMacc82
June 29th, 2012, 01:37 PM
I don't doubt it but i know that i have had to do all the regulated paperwork for mine and wait a week. Add it to the list of firearms laws that i do not fully understand. Lay a dpms oracle in 5.56 next to an oracle in 308 and tell me why one should be treated any differently that the other.

If i were to buy another i may press the issue with the ffl but it is not that consequential to me.


It's not the FFL making the rules..., you can thank MSP and a bunch of panty-waisted politicians for those laws... ;)

Wojo
June 29th, 2012, 02:01 PM
It's not the FFL making the rules..., you can thank MSP and a bunch of panty-waisted politicians for those laws... ;)

I think what A-time is saying ia that the ffl holder i use is making me fill out regulated firearms paperwork on the AR-10s and DPMS 308s and i should not really have too. I bet he is just being on the safe side which is ok by me... I would not want him to get in trouble based on someones interpretation of the law. When the assault weapon list has verbage like "AR 100 TYPE rifle" whos to say what these are...

BradMacc82
June 29th, 2012, 02:55 PM
I think what A-time is saying ia that the ffl holder i use is making me fill out regulated firearms paperwork on the AR-10s and DPMS 308s and i should not really have too. I bet he is just being on the safe side which is ok by me... I would not want him to get in trouble based on someones interpretation of the law. When the assault weapon list has verbage like "AR 100 TYPE rifle" whos to say what these are...

Ahh ok, yeah - sounds like your ffl is being a bit cautious/paranoid then.

BerBer5985
June 29th, 2012, 05:40 PM
Just out of curiosity why 300 blk and not one of the others like the 6.5 Grendel?

BradMacc82
June 29th, 2012, 05:43 PM
Just out of curiosity why 300 blk and not one of the others like the 6.5 Grendel?

I'd hazard a guess and say because 6.5G requires a diff't bolt, barrel, and magazine. 300BLK, the only thing you changes is the barrel.

DrunkUncles
June 29th, 2012, 07:51 PM
I'd hazard a guess and say because 6.5G requires a diff't bolt, barrel, and magazine. 300BLK, the only thing you changes is the barrel.

Yeah.... If I was gonna rock the 30 cal round... Using the same Mag's are a real nice luxury. And on top of that the 6.5 seems to be falling off in sales. Hoping that I can still rock the .300 in a few yrs, if not then you can add reloading to my list of hobbies.

Kind of off topic, the DD 300 is sooooooo much lighter than the Sig 716. Like 1/2 the weight. (that piston must weigh a ton)

annihilation-time
June 29th, 2012, 08:09 PM
I think what A-time is saying ia that the ffl holder i use is making me fill out regulated firearms paperwork on the AR-10s and DPMS 308s and i should not really have too. I bet he is just being on the safe side which is ok by me... I would not want him to get in trouble based on someones interpretation of the law. When the assault weapon list has verbage like "AR 100 TYPE rifle" whos to say what these are...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nssf.org%2Fshare%2FPDF%2FMDRu ling.pdf&ei=C0ruT6TdBOmw6AGdj5zKBA&usg=AFQjCNEjT2KUURsAsYSb8GVnzzdaTd7syA

If you haven't already seen this, read MSP Bulletin 10-2. Before this decision was made, most dealers transferred just about any non-HBAR AR style rifle as MD regulated.

BradMacc82
June 29th, 2012, 09:14 PM
Yeah.... If I was gonna rock the 30 cal round... Using the same Mag's are a real nice luxury. And on top of that the 6.5 seems to be falling off in sales. Hoping that I can still rock the .300 in a few yrs, if not then you can add reloading to my list of hobbies.

Kind of off topic, the DD 300 is sooooooo much lighter than the Sig 716. Like 1/2 the weight. (that piston must weigh a ton)


I don't know how well the 6.5 G is going to do, I've heard a few ammo producers are supposedly going to be supplying to meet demand, but I think it's safe to say that 300BLK is probably going to be a touch more popular in the long run as a whole.

Yeah, as a piston owner, the piston guns tend to have a noticeable amount of heft to them when compared to D.I., just nature of the beast.

Although if I didn't mind having to get some diff't mags, I'd definitely consider 6.5 G in a heartbeat, but I like the commonality of parts that 300BLK affords.

Russ D
June 29th, 2012, 09:21 PM
I'm about 15 weeks and waiting for a 300 blackout barrel from noveski.

I've still only fired mine a few times to function check as a pistol. I hate waiting for the SBR paperwork but it will be worth it when it's back.

BerBer5985
June 30th, 2012, 10:32 AM
Now are uppers cash and carry and the lowers require ffl? How does that work?

BradMacc82
June 30th, 2012, 10:42 AM
Now are uppers cash and carry and the lowers require ffl? How does that work?

AFAIK, lower's have been treated as regulated items (in MD) for years.

Works relatively easily, fill out 4473 (Federal) and a 77R (State), wait 7 days, everything comes back kosher, pick up your lower. Lower goes thru a FFL.


Upper's could be delivered straight to your home, or C/C.

BerBer5985
June 30th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Which is the best 300 blk upper for the money to put on a lwrc lower? My next ar might be an ar-10, but I'm in the same boat as the OP I think.

BradMacc82
June 30th, 2012, 06:00 PM
All subject to personal preference and budget.

DaemonAssassin
June 30th, 2012, 07:17 PM
I already have hand loaded for my RRA LAR-8 for deer season and also hand load .308 Win for my 700 SPS Varmint. I already have the dies, reloader, primers, powder, bullets, etc... I'm going to stick with my AR-10 clone and .308 Win. :D

RW2111
July 7th, 2012, 07:37 AM
just but order in for my AAC 30cal Can we shall see how quite this beast will be

BenL
July 7th, 2012, 07:47 AM
just but order in for my AAC 30cal Can we shall see how quite this beast will be

You'll love it. The combo is very quiet.