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downforthecause
October 19th, 2010, 10:42 PM
Ok, maybe the title sounds terrible, but I am cheap, mechanically inclined and have tools at my disposal....that said, I am faced with a problem. I bought my wife a Rossi single shot rifle chambered in 7.62x39. I figured recoil would be light, yet capable of deer hunting. And, again, I'm cheap...as is, Wolf 7.62... So upon my first attempts to shoot the rifle today (using wolf soft points), the first shot fired just fine, then the next 3 attempted rds absolutely would NOT fire even after 5 or so multiple strikes. The pin is striking dead center each time, yet not deep enough to ignite.

Now I have read alot online, where people say the guns simply aren't capable of shooting Mil-surp because of the recessed, harder primers. I believe the recessed primers part, just not the ''harder'' part. The hammer hits hard, very hard. However, it appears that the pin is just not plunging deep enough.


There has to be a fix to this problem. I am unfamiliar and unaware of any place to buy replacement parts (if they exist) to work in a Rossi. But after tinkering for a while and studying a schematic of the trigger assembly and firing pin, I have a plan. Tell me if it sounds feasible.


-I decided that if I can remove the stock firing pin, scuff the striking end and tack on a small bead of steel, and then mill it to an appropriate size, that this could possibly work, OR

-Would it be better to cut a coil off of the firing pin return spring? Would this spring, if too long (and bottoming out), keep the pin from plunging far enough to ignite the mil-surp?

clandestine
October 19th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Ive been there already, tried to talk the customer out of it and advised them to use better ammo. I made and modified springs, made a new firing pin, polished the parts, all for a customer to shoot inaccurate cheap ammo.

I had about 6 hours in that gun, customer then complained about the inaccuracy.

Forget being cheap here, it isnt worth it.

SmokingGun
October 19th, 2010, 10:55 PM
How about just tryin' another brand of ammo first? Could save you unnecessary headaches - and some $ :D

I wouldn't jack with the fp, but that's just me.

Lou45
October 19th, 2010, 11:05 PM
I will not give a recommendation on this one as there are two disqualifiers in the original post; wolf and cheap, not to mention cheap wolf :D

Now to the subject.
Try a different ammo other than wolf or other steel cased ammo. If the gun works fine, use that ammo. If the gun behaves with a better grade ammo as it did with the wolf ammo (misfires), it could be a bad firing pin or an over zealous return spring. Make sure the firing pin channel is thoroughly clean and free from any obstructions. I'm assuming you did buy the gun new, and if so, it should have a manufacturers warranty if the above mentioned doesn't work.

Lou45
October 19th, 2010, 11:07 PM
Ive been there already, tried to talk the customer out of it and advised them to use better ammo. I made and modified springs, made a new firing pin, polished the parts, all for a customer to shoot inaccurate cheap ammo.

I had about 6 hours in that gun, customer then complained about the inaccuracy.

Forget being cheap here, it isnt worth it.

Sorry Chad, I didn't know you had posted already or I would have let you take the full brunt of it all :lol2:

alucard0822
October 19th, 2010, 11:41 PM
R series break action?, not terribly farmiliar with that particular rifle, but I have worked on T/Cs, and a couple older H&R/Sears/Winchester break action rifles

Should be plenty of hammer power to light off Wolf, their primers aren't as hard as the internet would have you belive. I'd check firing pin protrusion, clearances and for burrs before modifying anything. The pin return spring on most break action rifles is pretty light, and doesn't do much to affect the primer strike. More likely something is contacting the hammer or pin, canted pin channel, burr in the hole or pin bore, insufficient protrusion, rubbing on latch block, or even a headpsace problem. Steel cased ammo can run a tad undersized, and the berdan primer pockets can be a hair deeper than some other brands, but it tends to be more a symptom of something out of spec, or at the edge of spec. With Rossi and Taurus's quality control, or lack thereof, it could really be anything or a combination of the common issues above. Switching to another brand may move put the primer close enough to the breech face to light it, and that would be the easiest remedy outside of spending a ton of money to "fix it" Like Clandestine said, spending hundreds to shoot cheaper inaccurate ammo out of what will probably be a low volume rifle.

Mark392001
October 20th, 2010, 06:28 AM
Ok, maybe the title sounds terrible, but I am cheap, mechanically inclined and have tools at my disposal....that said, I am faced with a problem. I bought my wife a Rossi single shot rifle chambered in 7.62x39. I figured recoil would be light, yet capable of deer hunting. And, again, I'm cheap...as is, Wolf 7.62... So upon my first attempts to shoot the rifle today (using wolf soft points), the first shot fired just fine, then the next 3 attempted rds absolutely would NOT fire even after 5 or so multiple strikes. The pin is striking dead center each time, yet not deep enough to ignite.

Now I have read alot online, where people say the guns simply aren't capable of shooting Mil-surp because of the recessed, harder primers. I believe the recessed primers part, just not the ''harder'' part. The hammer hits hard, very hard. However, it appears that the pin is just not plunging deep enough.


There has to be a fix to this problem. I am unfamiliar and unaware of any place to buy replacement parts (if they exist) to work in a Rossi. But after tinkering for a while and studying a schematic of the trigger assembly and firing pin, I have a plan. Tell me if it sounds feasible.


-I decided that if I can remove the stock firing pin, scuff the striking end and tack on a small bead of steel, and then mill it to an appropriate size, that this could possibly work, OR

-Would it be better to cut a coil off of the firing pin return spring? Would this spring, if too long (and bottoming out), keep the pin from plunging far enough to ignite the mil-surp?

Wolf and the cheap ammo are really meant for the battle rifles (SKS, AK variants). They are fun to shoot and tend to work fine in those guns, but will never be match grade ammo. If you're looking to shoot cheap in 7.62x39 with accuracy I would recommend handloads (.311 diameter bullet which also does 7.62x54r and .303 British if interested). Otherwise pay for the factory brass loads. I wouldn't screw with the gun too much as you'll lose value and waste time. Just my .02.

hvymax
October 20th, 2010, 06:44 AM
Sounds like you have already wasted twice what the gun is worth to save a few cents on ammo. Does it work with commercial ammo?(UMC,A eagle) If it does get over your cheap self.
That said if it was me I would drill the firing pin hole where the spring rests a little deeper so the firing pin could protrude more. Welding onto carbon steel is best done where you can match alloys and properly heat treat otherwise you will create a soft/brittle piece that will crush/break.

SOMDSHOOT
October 20th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I do own the Rossi single shot 20 gauge slug gun and it's dead on for Deer hunting with any standard shotshell. Would I own a Rossi single shot rifle for deer hunting... probably not.

Rossi has issues on the rifles with the firing pin breaking, either due to dry firing or just a cheap metal part, and the overpowered spring is a major issue as well on these guns. Personally, I'll have to agree, that unless you plan on putting some money into a longer pin, you're going to find that you can not use just any ammo with your rifle.

Rossi is the bare bones, no frill, economy line, but, I have no complaints, I would recommend them to anyone looking for a cheap beater, but, going to WalMart and dropping a few hundred dollars for a Remington 700 or something similar for example is my best recommendation in rifles.

Rossi is basically a clone of many other single shot rifles, they are designed for standard old ammo and recessed primers were not part of the game. They basically build one gun and bore the barrel to whatever caliber / gauge and apply the barrel to the stock frame and firing mechanism. It might or might now work in the field.

You just have to find those bullets that will work. and if it fired the first three, but, not the later, make sure the tip of the pin is not flattened or broke off. Search the net and in the first search for Rossi Firing Pin, you'll see lots of people looking for new pins in weeks of buying the gun.

downforthecause
October 20th, 2010, 09:10 AM
alot of valid points here... thanks guys....I guess I'll just have to buy another sks, and bite the bullet (pardon the pun) and buy commercial ammo for this thing. It is disheartening to hear the firing pins are prone to breakage.......how much would a 'smith charge to replace the firing pin if needed?

SOMDSHOOT
October 20th, 2010, 10:19 AM
alot of valid points here... thanks guys....I guess I'll just have to buy another sks, and bite the bullet (pardon the pun) and buy commercial ammo for this thing. It is disheartening to hear the firing pins are prone to breakage.......how much would a 'smith charge to replace the firing pin if needed?

What is the specific model of the rifle ? I'd assume it's Model R762MB If so, you'll need to order Part# 16 if it's broken. Call them and they may even ship you the part: (305) 474-0401

Below it sounds like a general ammo issue.

Here's a few quotes from other forums with guys who have your same issue:

"I had one in 7.62X39. It would not hit the cheap militarry ammo hard enough and I had numerous misfires. The mainspring is kind of clothes pin cheap. I really would not recommend one after my experience. They are not the quality of the Handi Rifle - Northmn"

"My 7.62x39 Handi won't fire cheap mil-surp ammo either & misfires on lots of factory ammo as well. If I don't seat the primers as deep in the pocket, it's 100% reliable and quite accurate, especially with 180gr 311407 cast at 1880fps. The 7.62x39 ammo needs a hard hit as well as a longer (than normal) firing pin protrusion from the breech face. I read on the Greybeards site about one guy that got his to shoot cheap mil/factory ammo by grinding down the amount of stock on the hammer face - the area above the part that hits the transfer bar. If you push on the back of the Handi firing pin it will extend much farther - the hammer "boss" that hits the frame at the top is what controls the pin "stick-out". If my Handi was just a 7.62x39, & I wanted to shoot cheap ammo (well, not counting my cast lead reloads), I'd have already done this - OBXPilgram"

"I once had a expensive Ruger Mini 30 7.62x39mm chamber and it too would not set off surplus 7.62 ammo or any steel case ammo for that matter. Remeber the steel ammo is for SKS' and AK's which have a robust firing pin and a hard strike on it as well - yotatrd4x4"

downforthecause
October 20th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Yes, SOMD, it is that model...and thanks for finding those quotes! I researched a lot last night and couldn't find the actual procedure anywhere....that said, having now heard it, I can't picture how grinding anything down except where the firing pin return spring seats, would fix it, unless it just speeds up pin strike, by lightening the parts?

SOMDSHOOT
October 20th, 2010, 03:34 PM
Yes, SOMD, it is that model...and thanks for finding those quotes! I researched a lot last night and couldn't find the actual procedure anywhere....that said, having now heard it, I can't picture how grinding anything down except where the firing pin return spring seats, would fix it, unless it just speeds up pin strike, by lightening the parts?

LOL I have no idea. Some guys dream things up and then make an effort to pass their theories off as the gospel.

downforthecause
October 20th, 2010, 03:44 PM
I think you're dead on in this case. These people...for crying out loud...lol. Welp, I guess I'm off to find some non mil-surp... Another question actually... Can steel casings be reloaded?

jimbobborg
October 20th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Can steel casings be reloaded?

No.

clandestine
October 20th, 2010, 04:38 PM
They were likely referring to the firing pin seat being drilled deeper, or "pointing" the firing pin, which can make deeper hits on hard primers.

downforthecause
October 20th, 2010, 08:22 PM
I being the skeptic that I am, read that explanation quoted by SOMD and wrote if off...but in fact it was probably right! :innocent0. The mechanism in this gun is such that the hammer ''neck'' hits a small hinged metal plate, knocking it into the firing pin. However, the square head/face of the hammer- that you would assume hits the firing pin- in fact simply stops the hammer from going further above all the moving parts that make it go bang....Sooo, by my understanding and inspection, in it's former state (I tinkered:innocent0) the hammer needed to be ground down ever so slightly, to make for more travel of the ''neck'' of the hammer, and therefore of the firing pin...Another flaw I noticed, is that the hammer is either mounted slightly crooked from the factory or the ''face''/''head'' of it was was crooked, causing it at either rate, to only make contact on the left side of the hammer stop...(also decreasing hammer and firing pin travel) So hopefully having taken my dremel to the hammer face, it's ready to rock some mil-surp. I didn't go crazy or anything, so hopefully I don't end up with punctured primers...

...That all done, it's test firing time ASAP.

clandestine
October 20th, 2010, 09:51 PM
I being the skeptic that I am, read that explanation quoted by SOMD and wrote if off...but in fact it was probably right! :innocent0. The mechanism in this gun is such that the hammer ''neck'' hits a small hinged metal plate, knocking it into the firing pin. However, the square head/face of the hammer- that you would assume hits the firing pin- in fact simply stops the hammer from going further above all the moving parts that make it go bang....Sooo, by my understanding and inspection, in it's former state (I tinkered:innocent0) the hammer needed to be ground down ever so slightly, to make for more travel of the ''neck'' of the hammer, and therefore of the firing pin...Another flaw I noticed, is that the hammer is either mounted slightly crooked from the factory or the ''face''/''head'' of it was was crooked, causing it at either rate, to only make contact on the left side of the hammer stop...(also decreasing hammer and firing pin travel) So hopefully having taken my dremel to the hammer face, it's ready to rock some mil-surp. I didn't go crazy or anything, so hopefully I don't end up with punctured primers...

...That all done, it's test firing time ASAP.

That plate is the transfer bar, its there so if the hammer notch fails the gun wont fire because the transfer bar only comes up with puling the trigger. Changing things here can get very dangerous if you dont know the mechanism well.

The hammer beomg off square will cause issues, good find!

zombiehunter
October 20th, 2010, 11:04 PM
Whatever the question (I only read the thread title):

If it costs more than $20 to fix, I recommend just letting someone who knows what they're doing do it. Just ask the bolt release/hold on my 10/22 :)

downforthecause
October 21st, 2010, 01:16 PM
That plate is the transfer bar, its there so if the hammer notch fails the gun wont fire because the transfer bar only comes up with puling the trigger. Changing things here can get very dangerous if you dont know the mechanism well.

The hammer beomg off square will cause issues, good find!


Thank you my good sir!...and hopefully I keep my face in tact...:sad20:

Biggfoot44
October 21st, 2010, 03:04 PM
I'll have to mediTate for the nomenclature, but yes on a certain real DA rev, I have had a highly skilled , factory terained 'smith hone slightly on a hammer face to fine tune firinjg pin protusion.

That said, just buy some boxer primed brass case ammo. Reload said cases w/ cast bullets if that concerned w/ minimal expenses.

Or to be contrary , I could see a .303 reamer in it's future.