PDA

View Full Version : Israeli 5.56 Ammo Issues


clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 12:17 PM
Been using it for blastng lately and testing in other peoples AR's.

BAout one in every 100 rounds a primer pops out of the casing and jams up the works. Looks like they didnt stake the primers.


Just a heads up for those considering buying. Perhaps the 5K I have is a bad batch but its been giving me fits.

Specs: (Or what its supposedly advertised to be)

Comes in Brown 30 Round Boxes
Israeli M855, 62 Grain Penetrator (Tips are NOT painted)

Jimbob2.0
August 8th, 2010, 12:24 PM
You talking about this stuff?

Good thing I didnt buy any.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9019

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 12:26 PM
You talking about this stuff?

Good thing I didnt buy any.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9019

That be it, but the boxes look to be a lighter color in those pics than the ones I have but thats it.

I hate the stuff, nothing like clearing a locke up AR with a primer stuck overtop the gas key, or under the FCG.

mbz300sdl
August 8th, 2010, 12:32 PM
You talking about this stuff?

Good thing I didnt buy any.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=9019

Too rich for my blood anyway I'll keep my Tula :D

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 01:29 PM
Been using it for blastng lately and testing in other peoples AR's.

BAout one in every 100 rounds a primer pops out of the casing and jams up the works. Looks like they didnt stake the primers.


Just a heads up for those considering buying. Perhaps the 5K I have is a bad batch but its been giving me fits.

Specs: (Or what its supposedly advertised to be)

Comes in Brown 30 Round Boxes
Israeli M855, 62 Grain Penetrator (Tips are NOT painted)

Not trying to be a dick...but asking - isn't that the biggest problem with "bulk" ammo?? It being poorly manufactored.

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 01:31 PM
Not trying to be a dick...but asking - isn't that the biggest problem with "bulk" ammo?? It being poorly manufactored.

Most milspec type is very reliable, just not super accurate (Consistent).

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Most milspec type is very reliable, just not super accurate (Consistent).

Cool. Thanks for not bashing the ?

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 01:40 PM
Cool. Thanks for not bashing the ?

No problem my friend. I just wanted to pass the word in case someone was about to buy. Its been on sale at several distributors and I shouldnt have bought it.

Just wanted to help. :)

mbz300sdl
August 8th, 2010, 01:59 PM
No problem my friend. I just wanted to pass the word in case someone was about to buy. Its been on sale at several distributors and I shouldnt have bought it.

Just wanted to help. :)

Well if you need help getting rid of it I am sure my Mini-14 wouldn't mind :D:D

303_enfield
August 8th, 2010, 04:37 PM
Rejected lots because of no crimp. Good stuff, but at 5.56 (M855) pressure you will get primer pops.

mikec
August 8th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Not trying to be a dick...but asking - isn't that the biggest problem with "bulk" ammo?? It being poorly manufactored.

The Israeli 5.56 has a history of being some of the best around. I have fired plenty of this stuff in the past, no issues.

Yes, I know, new day, new batch and someone fell asleep at the QC station.

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Rejected lots because of no crimp. Good stuff, but at 5.56 (M855) pressure you will get primer pops.

That must be it then.

I got worse with a sound suppressor attached to multiple platforms but it was doing it on every gun with or without a sound suppressor.

I wnet through each case and randomly grabbed boxes to see if was local to one case, nope, every case was doing it consistently. :sad20:

mikec
August 8th, 2010, 05:13 PM
A few weeks back, someone posted that this stuff was available. I almost bought some but I bought the Federal M193 from AIM.

Real glad I bought what I bought.

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 05:18 PM
The Israeli 5.56 has a history of being some of the best around. I have fired plenty of this stuff in the past, no issues.

Yes, I know, new day, new batch and someone fell asleep at the QC station.

Fair enough...I didn't know this was milspec ammo...thought someone was just using the name...

hk21guy
August 8th, 2010, 05:25 PM
i know the green box 9mm norinco does that because it was over powered it blows out the primer so it sounds like the imi is doing the same thing....

mikec
August 8th, 2010, 05:28 PM
Fair enough...I didn't know this was milspec ammo...thought someone was just using the name...

The boxes look the same as what was available many years back, when IMI made M193 only and the M855 I got also maybe 20 years ago.

I believe 100% that this is indeed IMI overrun ammo.

Sad that the QC failed.

Just wonder if only a small amount is affected or if all of the ammo is this way?

smores
August 8th, 2010, 05:29 PM
Rejected lots because of no crimp. Good stuff, but at 5.56 (M855) pressure you will get primer pops.

I was gonna say, thought all milsurp 5.56 would have crimped primers, sounded like something like that to me.

I know a lot of people who shoot the IMI stuff, I'll be sure to watch out for this though. Thanks for the heads up! :thumbsup:

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 05:30 PM
Just wonder if only a small amount is affected or if all of the ammo is this way?

He did say 1%...so I'm guessing positively.

mikec
August 8th, 2010, 05:34 PM
He did say 1%...so I'm guessing positively.

Yes, Chad said 1% of what he had, had this issue, what about the other x hundred cases imported? Is the whole warehouse full of ammo that has issues or only a small number of cases?

As noted before, INSPECT your ammo. Don't just load magazines.

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Yes, Chad said 1% of what he had, had this issue, what about the other x hundred cases imported? Is the whole warehouse full of ammo that has issues or only a small number of cases?

As noted before, INSPECT your ammo. Don't just load magazines.

Well to be fair my malfunction clearance drills improved about 6000%. Ive always ben fast at clearing malfunctions. The only thing that mede me keep my sanity was the fact that I had 2 new cans and that stupid ammo wasnt going to ruin my day.

I wont be buying anymore of this ammo, thats for sure. Im half way through the ammo so no big deal.

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 05:39 PM
I only use Blazer Brass now...before I was using steel CCI ammo and had one out of 50 duds. Just un-usable.

I get your point...but I guess I don't see 1/100 as a bad number.

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 05:56 PM
I only use Blazer Brass now...before I was using steel CCI ammo and had one out of 50 duds. Just un-usable.

I get your point...but I guess I don't see 1/100 as a bad number.

For plinking you are right , but 1/100 is one REALLY BAD malfunction after every 3 mags for a serious use weapon.

When primers pop on an AR, the upper needs to be seperated from the lower to get to the primer thats wedged in the upper (Bolt Locked forward HARD), or its wedged under the FCG and requires the FCG pins to be removed to get to the primer (Gets stick under the hammer usually).

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 06:27 PM
For plinking you are right , but 1/100 is one REALLY BAD malfunction after every 3 mags for a serious use weapon.

When primers pop on an AR, the upper needs to be seperated from the lower to get to the primer thats wedged in the upper (Bolt Locked forward HARD), or its wedged under the FCG and requires the FCG pins to be removed to get to the primer (Gets stick under the hammer usually).

Yeah...I knew that and yet I still put my foot in my mouth.

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Yeah...I knew that and yet I still put my foot in my mouth.

No problem brother, not foot in you mouth as far as im concerned. :), others may be reading and our posts may have brought some better understanding to those who may not understand the malfunctions it causes.

:)

mbz300sdl
August 8th, 2010, 06:41 PM
No problem brother, not foot in you mouth as far as im concerned. :), others may be reading and our posts may have brought some better understanding to those who may not understand the malfunctions it causes.

:)

I would have had no clue cause i have never even fired an AR.

boardboy330
August 8th, 2010, 06:41 PM
I would have had no clue cause i have never even fired an AR.

See...I was secretly helping you out. :thumbsup:

clandestine
August 8th, 2010, 06:49 PM
I would have had no clue cause i have never even fired an AR.

Well Ill be sure to bring mine when we do some blasting, along with my YHM suppressor. :)

303_enfield
August 8th, 2010, 08:05 PM
100% of the lot was rejected by the mil, no crimps. So the rejects get sold on the open market. IMI makes great ammo, some Winchester .223 is made in Israel (white box from Wally world). But the mil requires the crimp to avoid blown primers. Having your M16/M4 fail in a fire fight is a show stopper. Hell, I had a small stone get under my trigger in Iraq. Talk about a pucker factor.

Failing using a can is bound to happen. Take 5.56 pressure and increase it with a can, crimp is a good thing.

On a side note. The brass is great for reloading. But it is mil, so start low and work your way up.

paperwork351
August 9th, 2010, 07:45 PM
Was the M193 also rejected for the lack of a crimp?

mbz300sdl
August 9th, 2010, 07:59 PM
Well Ill be sure to bring mine when we do some blasting, along with my YHM suppressor. :)

Sweet weird thing is growing up my dad had two (at different times) the one he currently has was bought about 10 years ago and never been fired. He does that with a lot of guns and looks at me weird when I tell him i put 100 rounds through a gun in one day. :shrug: Some people collect and some people shoot and some people shoot a lot. :D

Semper Noctem
October 16th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Chad,

What type of ammo would you keep loaded all the time for a 1:7 twist? You know the shtf kind type ammo?

Semper Noctem
October 17th, 2011, 08:39 PM
What type of ammo would you keep loaded all the time for a 1:7 twist? You know the shtf kind type ammo?

Anyone?

mikec
October 17th, 2011, 09:02 PM
Anyone?

Did you think of sending Chad a PM and asking him to look at this thread?

sandeman
October 17th, 2011, 09:12 PM
If you want to shoot it up let me know.I need some range time we can split the cost by the # of people who show up.I like Delmarva Clays during the week.If you know a closer range that you enjoy Let me know.You are a stand up guy.I would go to war with you.

Semper Noctem
October 18th, 2011, 07:26 AM
Did you think of sending Chad a PM and asking him to look at this thread?

Eh, I figured he's the AR Guru and everyone PMs him... I didn't want to be another annoying fanboy with a stupid question.

frozencesium
October 18th, 2011, 10:19 AM
Chad,

What type of ammo would you keep loaded all the time for a 1:7 twist? You know the shtf kind type ammo?

M193 and 55gr VMax hand loads personally...but that's just me. I'm thinking I may want a supply of green tip in the future as well.

Tconfo
October 18th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Lake city green tip. Runs great out of my 1:7. Or PMC xtac 193. I'm a big fan of xtac

clandestine
October 22nd, 2011, 01:43 AM
Chad,

What type of ammo would you keep loaded all the time for a 1:7 twist? You know the shtf kind type ammo?

Sorry, I didnt see this post. I prefer 55 grain VMax loads. They pretty much blow up anything they hit.

Green Tip (Armor Piercing) isnt bad to have either.

A 1/7 barrel will stabilize them just fine.

clandestine
October 22nd, 2011, 01:44 AM
Eh, I figured he's the AR Guru and everyone PMs him... I didn't want to be another annoying fanboy with a stupid question.

I do get alot of PM's but I dont grow tired of them. I enjoy helping when needed.

Semper Noctem
October 22nd, 2011, 06:39 AM
Appreciated sir.

How do you feel about PMC Xtac? I've heard good things and they look like a good deal.

ViperRy
October 25th, 2011, 08:37 PM
For what its worth, I shot the IMI M193 at a carbine course this past Sunday and it ran 100%. Before that I sighted my 1:7 with it at 50yrds with tight groups. Then shot it at 100 and 200yrds at Delmarva. Not a single issue. You get it at Wideners for 28 cents/rnd including shipping to MD. Its better than any other M193 deal I have come across.

ETA: my buddy was using his SSAR stock and the IMI.. no problems. I haven't heard a single bad review on other forums I read either. Maybe the OP got a bad lot last year.