Final Roster for June 27th Carbine 101

[billprudden]

Friends -

Below is the final (I hope) roster for the Carbine 101 class at Mayberry. PLEASE check it over and make sure you are slotted where you are supposed to be. If you need to swap your am / pm let me know - several of the guys are flexible.

I'll remind you, 1 x 223 carbine, with or without optic, 2 x mags, perhaps 100 rounds of the ammo you will have in the rifle when you grab it, and whatever simple mag pouch or other gear you will be wearing or have within reach. Not a ninja turtle situation.

We will supply clipboards, data sheets, extra shooting bags for the bench and prone work, and instruction. I will also have several scoped carbines for loan, if needed. If you anticipate an issue, please bounce me in advance. Worst case, they will be there to replace a malfed rifle.

Please have, if possible, a working zero on your gun; 25, 50, or 100 are all fine. If this is not possible, there will be an opportunity to get a zero.

Arriving 15 - 30 minutes early is always a good idea.

Directions: From Westminster MD – Rt. 140 West to Mayberry Rd. Turn right on to Mayberry Rd. follow for approx. 1.5 miles. Turn right at yellow sign for Mayberry Game Protective Association. Go past archery club and continue to game protective club.

From Taneytown MD – Rt. 140 East to Mayberry Rd. Turn left on to Mayberry Rd. follow for approx. 1.5 miles. Turn right at yellow sign for Mayberry Game Protective Association. Go past archery club and continue to game protective club.

Please email me or post any comments or questions.

Thanks

Bill

billprudden@hotmail.com

Slot Name
Morning (9am start time)
1 Alex T
2 Joe P
3 Scott V
4 Laura S
5 Marc H
6 Dylan H
7 Aahz
8 JT
Afternoon (1pm start time)
9 Kevin C
10 Alex C
11 Patrick J
12 Jerry O
13 Tom R
14 Brian D
15 Dan Z
16 Brant A

[soup101]

Looking forward to to this :party29:

[glock_forty5]

GTG!

JT

[DZ]

:thumbsup: Thanks Bill.

If anyone would prefer an afternoon slot, I'd be happy to switch to morning.

[kac]

JT doesn't want to switch into the afternoon group. We don't want him to be forced to shoot head to head against Alexandra.

[glock_forty5]

Sorry KAC, you will have to cover the PM w/o me. Taking the fam to a party in the PM.

JT

[Ramrod197]

Thanks bill I didnt know there was going to a pm or am shift.. Ill be there in the am if you need help thanks Brian

[Ramrod197]

Bill not sure where you are going to meet ,but if your meeting at the range shooters need to go past the club house and around the pond to the rifle range. Brian

[billprudden]

Yes, thank you, good point. We will meet around back of the pond in the parking lot by the covered rifle pavilion.

Bill

[Apone]

Sounds good. Looking forward to it!!!

[herr.baer]

Will be there.. Can't wait. :party29:

[Apone]

Well, I wish I would have waited...

I thought the thing was today!!! Oh well, at least I know where the place is now!!!

[glock_forty5]

Carbine Clinic AAR June 27th :thumbsup:

Mayberry, MD

Instructors: Bill, Ian, Ed, Steve, and Ron

This will be an addendum to my original AAR for the 1st Carbine Clinic found HERE (http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=468214&postcount=71).

The course was structured as follows.

Verify zero – The class was split between 50 and 100 yd zero with one shooter using a 25yd zero. All students took a bench and had a spotter who called hits/helped zero rifles.

Holdovers – Shooters worked from 100 out to 600 adjusting holdovers based on their zero. This was much better this time as there was no snow to hide the targets.

Weapons manipulation – Ian did a great job going over reloading and malfunction drills. Ian made some subtle changes in the material he taught. They were good and shows that he is keeping his material up to date and relevant. He also made up some dummy mags for malf drills, I am going to do the same.

Less than 30 yards – Barefoot Bill was leading the charge here. My shooting partner and I worked on extreme short range holdovers. Height over bore, learn it, live it, love it… Bill also drove home natural point of aim ( a foundation the we built on through out the morning). Look at your target, move your body to align the sights to the target and make your shot. Good technique and it works but after years of 3 gunning and carbine classes some twisting of the torso to transition to multiple targets up close is faster for me. That being said I did the drills as Bill intended and learned the lesson being taught.

Kneeling and Sitting – 200 to 500 yards – These were the most challenging positions for me. Bone on muscle, muscle on bone. The figure 8 wobble snuck in to my sights here too. :innocent0 Ed did a good job of getting me sorted out. I got hits at both 200 and 500, but did so in the seated position much easier than kneeling. I do not think I would use this position unless circumstances required it. Ed did say that this was not an easy position to drop into as body position is everything here. Thanks for the assistance Ed, I did learn.

Use of barricade – Standing and Kneeling – 300 to 400yards – Good stuff here as shooting from cover or concealment is preferred. Ian demonstrated how to hold the barricade and pinch the rifle. From the right side of the “telephone pole” I got good hits at 300 and 400, the leftside was a little more challenging (I switched shoulders) but I got hits at 300 (I did not try 400 as 300 was tough enough). Kneeling low barricade was much easier. Ian got me clearance and I went to 500. The extra stability from the telephone pole and low barricade made a huge difference.

Prone – 100 to 600. Steve was the man with the plan here. Natural body position was again stressed here and it made a difference. I had to work to get a position that would stabilize the side to side movement of my sights (mono pod on the mag). Steve had me extend my support hand out as far as I could get it and it helped. Once dialed in 100 hits were gtg we stepped out to 600. I made my hits but it was a lot tougher than on the bench with a rest and a sand bag. Thanks Steve.

Note on ammo: using 75/77grn ammo made a difference today. The Wally world bulk .223 55 grn ammo I also had with me groups at about 3 in for me at 100 where the heavier loads are 3/4 to 1 inch. I am sure some better 55 grn would do better but that is what I had.

Conclusion – Excellent course with great material taught by knowledgeable instructors. The beginner will get much needed fundamentals and the experienced will get a good revisit of the basics. Skills learned must now be mastered by the student.

Personal note – I need to learn to read the wind, past 200/300 it was coming in to play. Ed and Steve were calling it out like they were reading a paper. A class with Ed is now on my list.

I big thansk to Bill and all his instructors! It was a great morning of shooting and I got to catch up and shoot with a lot of MD Shooters. Good times! :D

JT

[billprudden]

JT -

When you take that course with Ed I'd be interested to see if your frustration with the kneeling / seated stuff can't be ironed out. I have a pet theory that we skinny guys can, once we have figured it out, "crumple" into good NPoA seated positions which require very little physical stress and really stabalize the rifle nicely, but that less-skinny guys, trying to fold over and around the gun despite themselves, are in an entirely different circumstance... I'd be interested to see if Ed can't make you a "seated believer"...

Thanks for coming out today, it was great to see you again.

Bill

[billprudden]

Oh, and by the way: Whoever left their electronic ears behind - email me and I'll drop them in the mail this week.

Bill

[Apone]

Agree with everything you said, JT. I've never been a fan of seated, and I just can't see an opportunity to use it in that manner... Oh yeah - that's exactly what I used last weekend at Topton... Duh...

The course was excellent. The instructors did a wonderful job of working with the students on the fundamentals. You can never over-learn fundamentals. Everything starts here - and repeating this, over and over - and hearing it - over and over - makes a huge difference. I will most certainly repeat this class.

Oh - one quick note poking fun at Bill - I saw him gliding over the rocks in his bare feet like it was nothing. I seriously thought he was using The Force. On the 30-yard and close drills - my partner said "I'll definitely try". I fully expected him to reply "Do, or do not. There is no try..."

[glock_forty5]

Bill,

I will let you know how training with Ed goes. I am recovering from a back injury so I am sure that complicated things for me.

Apone,

Ahmen on the basics!

KAC,

You had two newish shooters with you, how did they do?

JT

[soup101]

JT’s AAR covers the course well.

I personally learned a lot, re-enforced a lot, and left with a ton of info and things to work on. Having the opportunity to learn holdovers and apply them in different shooting positions out to 600yards was well worth the course fee itself. I was really surprised that everyone in our group was able to get good hits at 600 yards and one guy was running an SBR.

Kudos to the instructors and Mayberry for putting this together :thumbsup:

-Joe

[glock_forty5]

Bill,

You may want to edit the thread title with something like "now with 100% more AARs", or words to that effect.

[billprudden]

Good thought, done.

[kac]

KAC,

You had two newish shooters with you, how did they do?

JT

You're exactly right, JT. My daughter shot with us in the afternoon session, as well as my friend, Jerry. I am not exaggerating when I say this was the second time Jerry had ever touched a rifle before.

The class couldn't have been any more perfect for them. The instruction was clear and low key, and although this may have been one of the first times they ever were doing things like putting magazines in or out, by the end of things, they were doing quite passably well.

I've always been careful with my daughter, concentrating on safety, nomenclature, and just getting a good comfort level with her around firearms. This class was perfect to take her to that next step. She had never shot beyond the 25 yard line at Hap. Here, she was getting solid, repeatable hits at 50 yards, and was about 50/50 at 100 yards with open sights. She was offered the use of some of the firearms with some whiz-bang magnified optics on them, and she got hits out to 600 yards.

Jerry, who is a good Glock shooter, was getting more hits than misses out to 300 yards with open sights, and please realize that he also had never shot previously beyond 25 yards.

I think both of them thrived in the atmosphere that was created there. It was palpable that despite the shooting skills of the instructors, they were not trying to compete with you or yell at people for their shortcomings. Rather, every trainer there was trying to get you to stretch your abilities and they were offering thoughts and advice about how to do that. Both Jerry and Alex walked away with a real sense of accomplishment. Alex talked about cool things that went on in the class for hours afterwards, which is unlike her. I guarantee you, Jerry will own an AR in the very near future.

I couldn't be more pleased with what they did for a group of newbs, and I walked away with some great ideas and approaches about how to better results for myself.

Highly recommended.

[ateixeira]

I think JT covered it very well in his AAR. This class was awesome!
I was a bit unsure of what to expect prior to getting there Sunday morning.

I have trained with Bill P in the past and he has a good way of pushing you to your limits and beyond, all the time ensuring that you walk away with knowledge of your skills, needed improvements and how to properly employ whatever platform you are using.

That being said when I arrived and saw the course of fire I figured I'd be at a great disadvantage with what I was running for the day at distances beyond 200 yards. My go to gun: LMT 101/2" SBR 1:7 twist with an Eotech 553, shooting Privi M193 55g FMJ.

To my amazement with the skilled instructors help I was able to score hits out to 600 yards. I could not even see the 600 yard target. All I could make out through the blowing dust and mirages generated by the heat was the upper support for the target and used that for hold over reference. Steve was able to withing a few shots walk me to the "sweet spot" and then it was on. Ed also did the same for me when the wind started to play with the 55g round out at 400+ yards. I am thankful for the patience and skill they where able to convey.

Ian did great running us throughout the fundamentals. Malfunctions and reloads can't be practiced enough. The bit with the training mags without springs/followers was a great take away. I also was able to see with Ian that shooting at distance using barricades for concealment is something to be practiced.

The sitting and kneeling was the most challenging of all the stations and definitely needs to be improved on. Something the "thinner" dudes can more easily manage.
Ed was really good about pointing out where I needed to improve in order to have a more stable shooting platform.

Bill and Ron out at the close range station helped us develop good point and shoot skills without using any optic. I took away some good practice Ideas to get me off the "X" and not be anchored to one spot. Note: The Novesk "Flaming Pig" compensators turn into paper shredders at close range.

It was a pleasure and a great time. Great instructors and students made for a good day of learning.

Thanks to all who helped make it possible.

Now on to the CQB baby :party29:

[glock_forty5]

Note: The Novesk "Flaming Pig" compensators turn into paper shredders at close range.

My buddy Jay was your shooting partner during the class. He told me about the "Flaming Pig" and its awesome fury!

http://papundits.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/global-warming-gore-fire.jpg

[Todd v.]

Sounds like fun, I really need to do some long range with an AR just to get the feel.... Sounds like it would have been just the ticket for my 3X scoped AR, but I was down south for the weekend. :sad20: Maybe I'll get to stretch it out a little in the improvised shooting positions class? :D

[billprudden]

That is correct, sir!

[billprudden]

Well, it appears that I only thought I changed the name of the thread. If anybody knows how, please explain it to me really slowly.

Thanks

Bill

[E.Shell]

Well

[E.Shell]

Bill,

[E.Shell]

it's

[E.Shell]

like

[E.Shell]

this....

[billprudden]

"solutions oriented" team player, Ed Shell...

[kac]

That's funny stuff, right there.

[Todd v.]

PM a moderator..... :innocent0

Us mere mortals have not the authority.

[glock_forty5]

Sorry Bill, I thought the OP had the power.

[Threeband]

Ed's trying to pad his post count so he can run a classified ad.


I think your post count is ok, Ed.

[K Train]

Ed's trying to pad his post count so he can run a classified ad.


I think your post count is ok, Ed.

that new 3500 posts to be allowed to post an ad is a real biyatch