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View Full Version : Advanced Tactical Carbine II-July 18, 2010


kac
April 29th, 2010, 02:21 PM
Tom will be running his TacCarbII course at CCJA on 18 July, 2010. I am sure he will be putting his normal blurb up here about it, but we are looking for a strong group of MdShooters there. The course will concentrate on Advanced Weapon Handling Skills, and we will also be venturing into tactics as well. Tom will also be expecting a down payment to keep your spot open, as I expect we will max this out on class size. Of course, Tom's great assistant instructors will keep student/teacher ratio down, as always.

Look forward to seeing you there.

ETA

kac
JeepDriver
glock_forty5
Dale
Archangel
Kashmir
Elijah (K’s kid)
Les Gawlik
Mini-Marine
Dave (LG’s kids)
jmira
tzoid
apone
Todd v.
ateixeira
Micktaco
gotm4

JeepDriver
April 29th, 2010, 02:44 PM
I'm in +1

glock_forty5
April 29th, 2010, 03:14 PM
I am in!

English pub for dinner after!!!

Kashmir1008
April 29th, 2010, 03:23 PM
I'm in and probably my son again as well. He's hooked. :)

For those of you who have not taken a CCJA tactical course you are missing out on a whole new world of shooting and critical training for real world scenarios and operation of your firearm. If you expect to able to function effectively with a weapon beyond range/target practice you need to get into these classes.

Don't misunderstand, these classes will improve your shooting skills, but being able to shoot well is only half of the equation. If you are ever in a fight and something goes wrong...and things WILL go wrong, these classes will give you the training so you can practice and become adept at dealing with it and stay in the fight. i.e. stand a chance of surviving.

The following things will potentially get you killed in a tactical situation even if you are the most accurate shooter in the world.

stove pipes
mis feeds
FTF
empty mag
almost empty mag
you get knocked on your ass and have to fight your way back up
your strong hand gets injured and have to shoot weak handed
it's dark

The problem I found for myself is that I have grown up as a range shooter. If there's a problem with my weapon I pause, look at it, assess, casually put it down or rack the slide or ask someone to look at it. Reloading is casual as well. "oh, I'm out of ammo" Set gun down, get out a mag load it up insert, rack then take time to aim etc etc.

That's all well and good for a lazy afternoon at the range but that's not training for a life threatening situation. The fight is going to be quick and very dynamic. Draw shoot shoot move shoot move shoot shoot move move shoot cover shoot, clear a stove pipe shoot reload etc etc. All those days spent punching hole in paper at the range mean almost nothing in that situation. You will be shaking, you will have tunnel vision, you will be nearly deaf, you will lose motor skills and you will not have time to "think" about what you need to do. Even if you are a LEO or military you will benefit from Tom and company's experience and expertise in how to train to respond effectively.

Between the classroom instruction and range time on "the farm" these tactical courses address not only how to shoot well in tactical situations but how to address the shit that is potentially going to happen when you are in the fight. I only had a vague thought about issues like reloading or clearing jams but never actually practiced dealing with them under stress.

Tom's courses will give you this sort of training and experience. It can save your life, it's VERY reasonably priced, it's a little scary and a hell of a lot of FUN.

But the #1 reason for tactical training, in my mind, is best summed up by something Tom said:

"You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training."

Kashmir1008
April 29th, 2010, 03:24 PM
I am in!

English pub for dinner after!!!

+2 :D

StrikeFace
April 29th, 2010, 04:06 PM
Even if you are a LEO or military you will benefit from Tom and company's experience and expertise in how to train to respond effectively.

Yessir.

kac
April 29th, 2010, 05:43 PM
English pub for dinner after!!!

Didn't Patrick say there were "only fat chicks there?"

Les Gawlik
April 29th, 2010, 06:10 PM
In for three...

glock_forty5
April 29th, 2010, 06:11 PM
Didn't Patrick say there were "only fat chicks there?"

Not when I am there! :D

kac
April 29th, 2010, 06:26 PM
Not when I am there! :D

Are you implying a cause and effect relationship?

glock_forty5
April 29th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Are you implying a cause and effect relationship?

Just stating the facts! (It helps if Tom is with you)

jmira
April 29th, 2010, 07:55 PM
I am in.. going to pay when I am at shotgun1 next month.

tzoid
April 29th, 2010, 08:04 PM
I'm in ..... who is determining who's an advanced shooter? :rolleyes:

Kevin you need to go to the English Pub this time..

jmira
April 29th, 2010, 08:14 PM
tzoid, did we christen that place during the first mdshooters carbine course? I remember the plaid skirts and some bartender up on a stool changing a light bulb...

kac
April 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I'm in ..... who is determining who's an advanced shooter? :rolleyes:



Well, I'd wouldn't be sorry to be in a tight spot with anybody's who's responded so far in this thread!

kac
April 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I remember some bartender up on a stool changing a light bulb...

Really, what was his name?

Apone
April 29th, 2010, 08:52 PM
I'm in as well.


And we are NOT going to that English Pub, JT!!!

jmira
April 29th, 2010, 09:15 PM
Really, what was his name?

it was one of the girls, we were mesmerized =)

tzoid
May 2nd, 2010, 08:06 PM
Joe,

That's the place we lived in a few days...I mean ate lunch and dinner at a few times.

So I guess Tom will officially post this class with the price when we get closer?

I would guess the cost will be $ 150.00 american?

kac
May 2nd, 2010, 08:30 PM
Tom has said that as of 1 January, all his "regular" courses are $200.

tzoid
May 2nd, 2010, 08:49 PM
Tom is so Lucky to have you guys posting his classes and quoting prices...

I need some volunteers...when are you available?? :lol2:

glock_forty5
May 2nd, 2010, 09:06 PM
Tzoid - we requested this class, it is not one of his regularly scheduled classes. Kind of a MD Shooters part III. Helper or not $200 is the price of admission.

JT

tzoid
May 2nd, 2010, 09:47 PM
Nice,

Kevin told me that a class was in the works but I thought it was in May..

Sounds like fun...

vette97
May 11th, 2010, 12:24 PM
I wish I could make this one but will be out of town. I'm going to have to attend another Carbine II with another group.

Todd v.
May 12th, 2010, 04:51 PM
I might be in for this one if ya'll will have me, any spots left? Shooting at the regular range just isn't fun anymore.... :D

ateixeira
May 12th, 2010, 05:03 PM
How many on the roster already?

kac
May 12th, 2010, 05:07 PM
Around 13. Dude, if you're interested, you know we have room for you.

ateixeira
May 12th, 2010, 05:13 PM
Thanks KAC!

I'll be at Tom's at the end of the month for the 2 day HTCC. I should know soon about this one.

Todd v.
May 12th, 2010, 05:19 PM
My schedule is clear, put me down.... I'll get the deposit to Tom. :D I've never prepaid him, full amount up front or what?

JeepDriver
May 12th, 2010, 05:24 PM
I'll be paying for and signing up Saturday when I'm down there. As well as 1 other shooter.

kac
May 12th, 2010, 09:14 PM
My schedule is clear, put me down.... I'll get the deposit to Tom. :D I've never prepaid him, full amount up front or what?


I think just because of his need and ability to bring in his additional instructors with bigger classes (and the need to pay them), Tom is leaning towards down payment if not payment in full in advance. I think I sent him my check about a month ahead of time last class, and that seemed very cool with him.

It's obviously not that he doesn't trust us of course, it's just the need to book people in advance and make financial decisions based on class size.

kac
May 12th, 2010, 09:21 PM
JT, is most of your team coming? Just mentally thinking about how people are going to end up divided when we do bounding drills, flanking, etc.

And to everyone else, you know how Tom always asks what we want covered, this is our class. Why don't we get a consensus of at least six drills we will go over without fail? Here's some suggested things for starters:

Team Peels
Bounding
Flanking
Bail-outs
IADs with contact worked on from each side
Hand-signs
Movement from column to firing line

Be imaginative!

ateixeira
May 13th, 2010, 07:22 AM
July 18th looks good for me.

Team? JT's A-TEAM, has a nice ring to it.

From the looks of it most if not all that will be attending have run courses together in the past.

I would add some foot formations with contact to the to do list.

YellowLT
May 13th, 2010, 08:26 AM
JT, is most of your team coming? Just mentally thinking about how people are going to end up divided when we do bounding drills, flanking, etc.

And to everyone else, you know how Tom always asks what we want covered, this is our class. Why don't we get a consensus of at least six drills we will go over without fail? Here's some suggested things for starters:

Team Peels
Bounding
Flanking
Bail-outs
IADs with contact worked on from each side
Hand-signs
Movement from column to firing line

Be imaginative!

Might be in Idea but a squad tactics class i recently took covered all of that plus Hasty Defensive Positions.

glock_forty5
May 13th, 2010, 08:23 PM
Stand by, I am pretty sure my guys are in. I will confirm.

Speaking of the A-Team, I just saw a trailer for an A-Team movie. I hope they don't make it a comedy like they did to Starsky and Hutch.

I have a few drills that I think will be cool, got to run them by Tom first. :)

kac
May 13th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Speaking of the A-Team, I just saw a trailer for an A-Team movie. I hope they don't make it a comedy like they did to Starsky and Hutch.

Who cares? Jessica Biel is in it. Watch it with the f__ing sound turned off.

kac
May 13th, 2010, 09:39 PM
I have a few drills that I think will be cool, got to run them by Tom first. :)

I'm psyched to hear that!

JeepDriver
May 15th, 2010, 09:34 AM
Signed up and paid.

glock_forty5
May 15th, 2010, 08:05 PM
Dale is in, Davin and Archangel are trying to get permission slips. Stand by...

jmira
May 19th, 2010, 08:25 PM
will pay on sunday when I am at shotgun1

Micktaco
May 20th, 2010, 01:31 PM
I'm in, need to pay still.

Archangel
May 24th, 2010, 09:40 AM
Dale is in, Davin and Archangel are trying to get permission slips. Stand by...

Permission slip acquired. Still need to Call Tom and pay up.

JeepDriver
May 24th, 2010, 10:39 AM
Just might have my BCM middy for this class ..........

kac
May 24th, 2010, 10:47 PM
Just might have my BCM middy for this class ..........

That would be great, Jeep! Can't wait to see it.

Micktaco
June 1st, 2010, 11:28 AM
I'm "officially" in now, just put down a deposit. See you guys there!

tzoid
June 1st, 2010, 08:17 PM
Kevin,

can you post a list of who's in? I'm calling CCJA tomorrow and paying.

I look forward to seeing you all.....

BTW.. will you be at the family reunion?

kac
June 1st, 2010, 09:08 PM
I will do a list up when I get a chance, probably tonight.

Can you PM the info on the reunion?

kac
June 1st, 2010, 09:35 PM
I'm going to amend the OP with the list.

JeepDriver
June 2nd, 2010, 06:00 AM
Any chance we can kick things off @ 0800 @ the range ?

kac
June 2nd, 2010, 06:14 AM
Obviously, Tom will have to answer this one rather than I, but my recall is the drawback to Sunday classes (which apparently everyone except me seems to like) is that the informal zoning type agreement is relatively more limiting on when we can start and when we must stop.

glock_forty5
June 2nd, 2010, 06:57 AM
Hot range 0800 is not going to happen.

I am talking with Tom later today to discuss drills for the day (more info to come) and schedule. You will leave tired is all I am going to say.

Also, Tom is working on hiring some much needed office help!

Stay tuned...

JT

glock_forty5
June 2nd, 2010, 01:04 PM
Update - Tom will post a schedule but here is a rough diagram of the day.

0900 - classroom to cover safety, drill review, and cover expectations for the day.

1100 - range. We will be hot until 1700. Bring a lunch as there will not be time to leave and come back with food.

Drills -

Tom will use some of the tried and true as warm ups. He spoke about a new drill with the Suburban (it is way cool, I will let him tell u).

We will also run a 4 man CAT drill starting at the 100yd line (I will wear a chest rig for this one). I am up, he sees me I am down! Make sure to use some good tick/bug spray!

We will also do a 4 man break contact drill (BW vid). Again I will be using a chest rig due to higher round count needed for this drill.

Of course Tom and crew may have a surprise or two in store for us as well!

JT

Todd v.
June 2nd, 2010, 01:41 PM
Obviously, Tom will have to answer this one rather than I, but my recall is the drawback to Sunday classes (which apparently everyone except me seems to like) is that the informal zoning type agreement is relatively more limiting on when we can start and when we must stop.

Can't piss off the ruskie.... :D

tzoid
June 4th, 2010, 01:53 PM
I'm with Kevin on the Sunday training days....but the mob rules so we gotta deal with it.

Les Gawlik
June 4th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Almost all of Tom's single day courses have been on Saturday. Lots of folks can't make it on Saturday. There will always be courses on Saturday, this was a rare one.

JeepDriver
June 4th, 2010, 07:18 PM
The times still don't change.

I was there for a Saturday class and had to stop shooting at 1700.

kac
June 4th, 2010, 08:00 PM
I may be mistaken, but I thought you can start a little earlier on Saturdays than Sundays.

glock_forty5
June 4th, 2010, 09:46 PM
KAC is right, you can start shooting earlier on Saturday. Regardless, there will be classroom time on day one.

ateixeira
June 6th, 2010, 06:54 AM
I remember when one could shoot till 2000hrs at Tom's place. Guess the days of low light shooting are gone. Except maybe for the few winter days that get dark early.

Todd v.
June 6th, 2010, 07:21 AM
I remember when one could shoot till 2000hrs at Tom's place. Guess the days of low light shooting are gone. Except maybe for the few winter days that get dark early.

Yea we shot out there till we had to use lights... :D

glock_forty5
June 6th, 2010, 01:46 PM
I remember when one could shoot till 2000hrs at Tom's place. Guess the days of low light shooting are gone. Except maybe for the few winter days that get dark early.

We shot one time to 2200! I went through ~1000 rounds that day. Good times...

JeepDriver
June 6th, 2010, 01:50 PM
We need a suppressor only class.

Maybe then we can shoot into the night. It's you un-suppressed people that cause the problems. :D

glock_forty5
June 6th, 2010, 04:31 PM
We need a suppressor only class.

Maybe then we can shoot into the night. It's you un-suppressed people that cause the problems. :D

ROFL!

JeepDriver
June 6th, 2010, 06:56 PM
ROFL!

Time to pony up ! Ya got the mount, time for the can.

Todd v.
June 6th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Time to pony up ! Ya got the mount, time for the can.

You have plenty right? :D

JeepDriver
June 7th, 2010, 06:10 AM
You have plenty right? :D

Working on it!

tzoid
June 7th, 2010, 09:22 PM
Kevin,

Please add Gotm4 to the class... Robb is an advanced shooter and Armorer at Virginia Arms Company. I spoke to Tom this morning and Robb will be training with us on the 18th

anyone that knows Robb can attest he is one of the top shooters in the country and one hell of a guy.

kac
June 7th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Happy to put him on, T!

Although we know he can't be one of the top shooters. He wasn't on Top Shot last night!

tzoid
June 7th, 2010, 11:05 PM
Watch Magpul The Art of the Tactical Carbine II.... Robb's in that video.

He built my Middy upper as well as my 20" upper.... Top Notch guy all around.

ateixeira
June 8th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Paid up and ready to roll. See ya boys there..

gotm4
June 8th, 2010, 11:04 AM
Kevin,

Please add Gotm4 to the class... Robb is an advanced shooter and Armorer at Virginia Arms Company. I spoke to Tom this morning and Robb will be training with us on the 18th

anyone that knows Robb can attest he is one of the top shooters in the country and one hell of a guy.


I'm in per the invitation Tim. I don't know about being one of the top shooters in the country! Them are some big shoes to fill. I do okay though. :cool:
I do have to pick up some 55gr ammo though since I can't shoot my normal training ammo (LC M855). But we got some American Eagle 55gr I'll be getting pretty cheap. Is 1K rounds of carbine enough?....and probably 500 rounds pistol?
Thanks, Robb

glock_forty5
June 8th, 2010, 11:30 AM
Rob,

1K of 5.56 and 500 of pistol will be plenty. I look forward to meeting you.

JT

Micktaco
June 8th, 2010, 11:44 AM
I thought the min requirement was 500 of 5.56 and 200 of pistol? I f not I gotta go pick me up some more.

Todd v.
June 8th, 2010, 12:21 PM
I thought the min requirement was 500 of 5.56 and 200 of pistol? I f not I gotta go pick me up some more.

That should be plenty, I've done a few of tom's classes and never shot 500/200 rounds in a day. Close though when we ran some longer drills with lots of cover fire. :D

He kinda leaves it up to you how fast you want to pull the trigger. :thumbsup:

glock_forty5
June 8th, 2010, 04:16 PM
Todd is right, your rate of fire will dictate your ammo needs. I did have a 1000 round day at Tom's once but he let us stay and shoot drills after class. To bad about the hard stop @ 1700.

tzoid
June 8th, 2010, 08:28 PM
I would say 500 rounds rifle and 200 pistol will be plenty.

This class is shaping up nicely..... I look forward to training with everyone again.

JT,

Have you and your crew been shooting much?

glock_forty5
June 9th, 2010, 11:46 AM
Tzoid - we get out when we can. Been shooting USPSA too. Going to shoot the 3 man 3 gun at Topton on the 20th too.

How bout you?

jmira
June 11th, 2010, 08:36 PM
something work trip related came up and I am not 100% sure I am in anymore.. will update closer to end of this month.

kac
June 14th, 2010, 02:01 PM
OK, everybody, we are approximately one month out. Please make sure that by the end of the week, you have at least a 50% down-payment sent out to Tom to hold your spot (or of course be fully paid). Tom would like to have the full amount paid a couple weeks before class.

He of course can speak for himself, but please consider the down-payment non-refundable, because of instructor booking, etc.

ateixeira
June 14th, 2010, 06:14 PM
How many do we already have committed with dep/payment? GTG here.

JeepDriver
June 14th, 2010, 07:38 PM
How many do we already have committed with dep/payment? GTG here.

I'm paid in full.

glock_forty5
June 15th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Paid in full mang!

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/3/3/Mini-Posters-Scarface--Dollar-Bill--330371.jpg

Todd v.
June 15th, 2010, 07:44 AM
Paid...

JeepDriver
June 15th, 2010, 09:00 AM
Now I just need to function check and sight in my new BCM midlength !

tzoid
June 15th, 2010, 05:08 PM
when and where are we going Chad?

JeepDriver
June 15th, 2010, 05:33 PM
As soon as I get back in town I'll call ya.

tzoid
June 15th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Sounds like a plan...have a safe trip