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drott
April 21st, 2007, 09:23 PM
I'm going to start building a gun collection pretty soon, just bought one rifle and have another on the way. Also looking to get started on pistols. I'm really starting to notice a huge difference between MD gun store retail prices and out of state internet prices, even factoring in shipping, FFL and state fees. So much so I'm starting to entertain the idea of possibly getting my own FFL, or whatever might be the least expensive equivalent that would allow me to buy guns directly online. I have no intention of selling guns, this would be only for the purposes of collecting my own stuff in an inexpensive and hassle free manner. I know nothing about getting an FFL or if there is a less expensive alternative that might work for me. I already applied for the collector status, hopefully that will be processed in another week or two.

Can someone help me out with some quick advice on whether this is really feasible or advisable? Is it more trouble than it's worth, or is it something that actually might be worthwhile, even if only for a year or two (or until my collection is basically fleshed out)??

Thanks in advance for any help.

navycrna
April 21st, 2007, 10:15 PM
You will never get an FFL for personal collecting. In order for you to get an FFL you have to prove (show that BATF a business plan) that you will have some sort of viable business.

It sucks I know the mark up in MD is insane.

You can apply for a Curios and Relics FFL. Many people on the forum have applied for it including myself. You will be able to get alot of collector stuff i.e. Garands, Moisens, Mausers straight from the internet or shotgun news. Also you can get some newer things that aren't regulated.

Its not ideal but it helps some.

smores
April 21st, 2007, 10:58 PM
Your best bet is a C&R FFL, that's about all you can hope to get.

Also, you can find an FFL dealer in your area that is reasonable. I'm not sure where you're located, but another member here recommended me to a local guy who happily accepts transfers on any new gun, no matter where you get it (as long as it has the fired case/internal lock and all that). Another more popular store won't take a transfer on a new gun if they carry it, and they DO carry a lot of guns so you're basically forced to pay a little over MSRP and then some with all the fees.

If you're any kind of enthusiast of firearms, stuff from every era will appeal to you, so at least get your C&R. You can obtain a lot of weapons that can be shipped directly to you (even handguns!), and several distributors give discounts on other items to C&R holders. It's only $30 for 3 years, and mine came back from the ATF in just a little over 2 weeks.

You can request the current forms to be sent to you in the mail for free from www.atf.gov

drott
April 22nd, 2007, 12:07 PM
Thanks guys, I figured as much. But the curio and relics FFL sounds interesting. Plus at $10 a year I can certainly swing that. Anyone got any links with more detailed info on the CR FFL situation? Thanks again...

novus collectus
April 22nd, 2007, 12:28 PM
You will never get an FFL for personal collecting. In order for you to get an FFL you have to prove (show that BATF a business plan) that you will have some sort of viable business.


Someone on the board made an interesting point that might be true. They said that an 07 FFL (gunsmith's/manufacturer's FFL) is easier to get and there are probably less zoning issues. Someone with an 07 FFL can transfer firearms I believe, and I am almost positive that an 07 can order guns accross state lines with one....but don't hold me to that.



You can apply for a Curios and Relics FFL. Many people on the forum have applied for it including myself. You will be able to get alot of collector stuff i.e. Garands, Moisens, Mausers straight from the internet or shotgun news. Also you can get some newer things that aren't regulated.
Newer and regulated by MD guns are also legal to get with the C&R license as long as they are on the list and the purchase is not done within the state (ordering from out of state counts as a purchase not done in MD apparently).
Purchases done within the state of regulated firearms must go through the state background check and the seven day wait.

drott
April 22nd, 2007, 01:03 PM
That's really interesting what you said about the CR FFL. So I might be able to purchase regulated firearms over the internet directly as long as they are from out of state sources? And what about this "list"? What's on the list and where can I check it out? How do you guys know this stuff is true, and where do I go to find out more about it? Thanks again, really apreciate the info.

novus collectus
April 22nd, 2007, 01:13 PM
That's really interesting what you said about the CR FFL. So I might be able to purchase regulated firearms over the internet directly as long as they are from out of state sources?

According to what a state police sergeant at the licensing office told me over the phone, and what I have read online of a copy of a letter from the state Attorney General, yes, but only C&R guns that the license allows you to get.

And what about this "list"? What's on the list and where can I check it out? How do you guys know this stuff is true, and where do I go to find out more about it? Thanks again, really apreciate the info. http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/faq.htm

SamW
April 22nd, 2007, 04:35 PM
To get an FFL you must have a legit business with legit business hours.

novus collectus
April 22nd, 2007, 04:39 PM
To get an FFL you must have a legit business with legit business hours.

But some gunsmiths do it as a second job or part time. Would it work to say you are open for five hours a day for two days a week?

SamW
April 24th, 2007, 06:58 PM
As stated above, you would have to show the BATFE a business plan.

drott
April 24th, 2007, 07:39 PM
Thanks guys for the info. One question though, I do plan on putting together a fairly well equipped machine shop and using it to build various mechanical contraptions. I've even thought about the notion of building/developing experimental guns and gun parts (if I could do so legally). If I had an actual machine shop and could demonstrate that I was (or could) fabricate guns and gun parts, would that qualify me for FFL eligibility? I would not be selling anything, it would be strictly an R&D operation. Although I suppose it's possible depending on what came out of the R&D efforts, something might eventually be made for sale. Does anyone know if an FFL would be a possibility for someone like that??

novus collectus
April 25th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Thanks guys for the info. One question though, I do plan on putting together a fairly well equipped machine shop and using it to build various mechanical contraptions. I've even thought about the notion of building/developing experimental guns and gun parts (if I could do so legally). If I had an actual machine shop and could demonstrate that I was (or could) fabricate guns and gun parts, would that qualify me for FFL eligibility? I would not be selling anything, it would be strictly an R&D operation. Although I suppose it's possible depending on what came out of the R&D efforts, something might eventually be made for sale. Does anyone know if an FFL would be a possibility for someone like that??

I believe an FFL is for transferring of guns, manufacturing of guns for transfer, transferring of guns worked on, and manufacturing ammo that is to be sold. Since you do not need a license to make your own (non-destructive device) ammo, work on your own guns, nor to make your own guns from scratch (except for NFA firearms), I can't see making your own guns as a reason they would give you an FFL. You would have to be transferring them or in some kind of business I guess.
It may be possible to make your experimental gun (except for NFA firearms) and then get the license after the fact to manufacture so you can then record it and then sell it, but I have a feeling the ATF wouldn't give you an FFL just because you might make a gun that you might sell someday.

SamW
April 25th, 2007, 06:14 PM
If you are going to manufacture guns for sale to others, you will need a business license, a federal license different from your typical FFL and a whole lot of insurance.

sbarber7973
July 17th, 2007, 03:09 AM
Well this thread answered one of my questions but I do have another one I am going to apply for my C&R, they sent finger print cards along with the application for the C&R, and a application for a regular FFL. Are the finger print cards for the regular FFL or do I need to send in some for the C&R and the cost is 30.00 right?

cbburke
July 17th, 2007, 07:18 AM
No, The C&R didnt need fingerprints, I just filled out my application along with 30 bucks. you would be better off using the credit card thats on the C&R Application so you know that they got it ...

it took me about less than 20 days to get my paperwork back...

sbarber7973
July 17th, 2007, 07:33 AM
No, The C&R didnt need fingerprints, I just filled out my application along with 30 bucks. you would be better off using the credit card thats on the C&R Application so you know that they got it ...

it took me about less than 20 days to get my paperwork back...

Thats not bad 20 days.... is the US government slipping only 20 days.... oh wait a minute when it comes to them getting money they will jump on it. Good idea about using the credit card.

Thanks Burke

Allium
July 17th, 2007, 08:28 AM
I sent my ATF F7cr (5310.16) (6-97) and a check to the atf address on the form - po bx 845219 Dallas and it came back un opened as refused unable to forward? That was the address on the form. Any ideas here?

But it at least made round trip in less than 2 weeks

sbarber7973
July 17th, 2007, 08:31 AM
I sent my ATF F7cr (5310.16) (6-97) and a check to the atf address on the form - po bx 845219 Dallas and it came back un opened as refused unable to forward? That was the address on the form. Any ideas here?

But it at least made round trip in less than 2 weeks


Hopes this helps, The address that I have on mine is. Does any one have one different?

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
P.O. Box 409567
Atlanta, GA 30384-9567

Also what is your "Revised date" on the bottom of the form, mine is May 2005.

smores
July 17th, 2007, 09:06 AM
Hopes this helps, The address that I have on mine is. Does any one have one different?

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
P.O. Box 409567
Atlanta, GA 30384-9567

Also what is your "Revised date" on the bottom of the form, mine is May 2005.

That sounds correct. Although I think the form I got was newer. I actually went online to the BATFE site and requested the forms (like you do with every gov't entity) since I don't have a printer, and there are so many different forms I figure if it's sent from the agency issuing the license, it would be the most current form. The one I sent in had a section for billing by Credit Card. I got mine back in a little over 2 weeks.

AKbythebay
July 17th, 2007, 10:17 AM
I sent my ATF F7cr (5310.16) (6-97) and a check to the atf address on the form - po bx 845219 Dallas and it came back un opened as refused unable to forward? That was the address on the form. Any ideas here?

But it at least made round trip in less than 2 weeks

You should be sending to the Atlanta address.

sbarber7973
August 3rd, 2007, 01:29 AM
C&R information

Sent Via US Mail 6/20/2007
BATF ran credit card 6/24/2007
Recieved C&R in my box 8/2/2007

cbburke
August 3rd, 2007, 07:02 AM
Congrates !!!!

See, it wasnt that long ...

sbarber7973
August 3rd, 2007, 11:08 AM
No it wasn't actually it was a lot quicker than I thought it would be, thanks all